Surge protection, SPDs and LiVE products

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I've been asking a few of the sparks  I see in Denmans  , generally blank looks  on SPDs   and head shaking on  the Arc devices .    I don't see them flying off the shelves ,  I think the rank & file have had enough TBH . 

By the 20 th edition  domestic wiring will be carried out in galvo steel  conduit  with Pyro,s shoved down it . 

 
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I've been asking a few of the sparks  I see in Denmans  , generally blank looks  on SPDs   and head shaking on  the Arc devices .    I don't see them flying off the shelves ,  I think the rank & file have had enough TBH . 

By the 20 th edition  domestic wiring will be carried out in galvo steel  conduit  with Pyro,s shoved down it . 
Agree with your sentiments exactly, considering that AFDD's don't work on ring circuits, which is what we mainly use over here, it makes you wonder what's coming next, radials perhaps?

As I see it the industry now is rotten to the core, most of the people involved in making the rules have a hidden agenda, 'if we can make it a requirement to fit such and such then it'll be good for me because my company makes them' , sort of thing.

People will soon get fed up with it all, a lot are already fed up now

 
People will soon get fed up with it all, a lot are already fed up now


Soon? SOON?

I think all the guys I speak to are fed up completely NOW with the ill thought out changes and lack of clarity and justification .........................

RCD's make sense, but I think RCBO's are a better solution, yet I still see new CU's with up front RCD's fitted .............. god help us.

 
They might be for TT  systems  Murdo .   

RCBOs are obviously the better option every time ....  but I have a problem with them ...I can't test for  Zs  through them because  (a)  They are  SP  and (b)   Both our loop testers knock them out  . And (c)   No we won't be buying  new testers .   So (d)  We have to fit a jumper wire  from an MCB  for testing .  And  (e)  It gets irritating sometimes .    But (f)   Not all times     Of course (g)  dual boards are OK  as they're DP     But ( h)  not many like them these days .  

 
They might be for TT  systems  Murdo .   

RCBOs are obviously the better option every time ....  but I have a problem with them ...I can't test for  Zs  through them because  (a)  They are  SP  and (b)   Both our loop testers knock them out  . And (c)   No we won't be buying  new testers .   So (d)  We have to fit a jumper wire  from an MCB  for testing .  And  (e)  It gets irritating sometimes .    But (f)   Not all times     Of course (g)  dual boards are OK  as they're DP     But ( h)  not many like them these days .  




Definitely not TT systems

 
They might be for TT  systems  Murdo .   

RCBOs are obviously the better option every time ....  but I have a problem with them ...I can't test for  Zs  through them because  (a)  They are  SP  and (b)   Both our loop testers knock them out  . And (c)   No we won't be buying  new testers .   So (d)  We have to fit a jumper wire  from an MCB  for testing .  And  (e)  It gets irritating sometimes .    But (f)   Not all times     Of course (g)  dual boards are OK  as they're DP     But ( h)  not many like them these days .  


Your point “A” is the most salient concern and my big worry. The industry fell in love with SP RCBO’s without really understanding the repercussions of not disconnecting a N→E fault.

 
Cant quite work out if the domestic  SPDs stop transient voltage spikes from the mains? If they do, then they should prolong the life of appliances, PCs etc. and I can see a reason to fit them.

 
Cant quite work out if the domestic  SPDs stop transient voltage spikes from the mains? If they do, then they should prolong the life of appliances, PCs etc. and I can see a reason to fit them.


But how will you ever know?   :C

Could be just a naf quality PC...

or a good quality PC that one lasts less or longer irrespective of supply and/or  voltage spikes...

OR.. what if you have a swanky all singing and dancing computer controlled, internet connected fridge or washing machine..

Mrs Homeowner gets bored with it anyway after four or five years and needs a new one as Mrs Mum, friend at the school gate, has just had her kitchen refitted...

So we need a new one as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:shakehead

Very few domestics have cottoned on to more than a Dual RCD board..

As that's what B&Q sell...

So until B&Q have Arc Fault and Surge Protection devices in their standard off the shelf boards...

Mr & Mrs homeowner wont have a clue what you are talking about!

99% still think MCB's are the new thing in place or wire fuses!

:popcorn  

 
But, as I said earlier, AFDD's don't work on ring circuits, so to gain any benefit it means wiring things on radials, is that the way they want to push things because if it is then it's a backward step in my opinion, what's next, sticking a fuse in the neutral, or are we going to start having different size plugs so that equipment needing protection can only be plugged into protected sockets, in which case it's going to be like the old days, where you had 2A plugs for lighting, 5A plugs for tv's and hoovers, and 15A plugs for washers and such like.

 I've said it before and I'll continue to say it, this is an  ill-conceived idea that has been brought in with very little thought, save that of making money for the manufacturers of these devices and once again shows a complete lack of knowledge on behalf of those who 'lead' our industry.

This complete lack of knowledge was shown again recently in an article in PE magazine, There was an article on a leading manufacturer and it said that when it became a requirement that only metal consumer units were allowed to be fitted in domestic properties, this company was at the forefront of manufacture.

Since when has it been not permitted to use anything but a metalclad CU  in a domestic environment? Because the way I understand it, if the CU is in a non-combustible enclosure then it has no need to be metal, and that is the end of that. I do wish people would fully understand things before making sweeping statements, it's no wonder the industry is in the mess it's in.

 
But would you fit an insulated CU in a domestic environment these days ?

I wouldn't
I wouldn't either, but it annoys me that these people who make out they know more than us, when it comes down to it generally don't, it's ridiculous.

 
Who are “these people” ? Other posters or the numpties on JPEL / 64 ?
Well, the one I'm referring to at the minute is supposed to be some electrical expert in a certain trade magazine, I shall be having words if he turns up at Elex shortly, assuming he doesn't run off  and hide, I took him to task last year over some of the articles, most notably the legendary red service fuse with the solid link, and we all know why that is don't we. lol

 
But would you fit an insulated CU in a domestic environment these days ?

I wouldn't
Yes, if I can get one and the location is suitable, but generally not becuase they are difficult/ imossible to get, and other people don't understand the real requirements...  I certainly don't like metal boards in garages where damp causes corrosion, but you can still buy plastic IP rated enclosures. 

 
Yes, if I can get one and the location is suitable, but generally not becuase they are difficult/ imossible to get, and other people don't understand the real requirements...  I certainly don't like metal boards in garages where damp causes corrosion, but you can still buy plastic IP rated enclosures. 


Interestingly I have been using metal in garages and sheds for years before AMD3 - especially when the supply cable is SWA, making the termination easier to do.

 
if the garage is dry, it's not much of an issue, but most seem to suffer condensation which eventually eats the board (takes a long time). I work on the basis that most garage roofs seem to leak at some point, so I would rather have a water tight plastic enclosure, plus they tend to be a bit more spider proof. I have to say I'm just not a fan of metal boards, it seems daft to enclose electrics in a box that is conduvtive, even if it is earthed.

 
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