The Decline Of Pv Installations

[ProDave]

I read a VERY misleading advert from a local WINDOW company advertising Solar PV.

They were quite simply comparing the typical 2-3% return on a savings account, with a claimed 10% "return" on a solar PV system.

But they were doing that just by comparing the annual income Vs the cost, and omitting to say that with Solar PV, once you have paid for the system your "investment" is gone, so at a 10% "return" it will take 10 years just to get back what you have paid out.  Of course with a savings account, your investment remains there to be withdrawn any time you wish.

do we not have advertising standards to stop such misleading claims?

 

[binky]

This rough calculator is SAP plus inflation. System performance being based on SAP is understating the actual performance. The system I fit will output around 4000kWh per year not the 3400kWh shown by SAP. So whilst you have a point Dave in that you spend your capitol, how many other things can you buy that gives this level of return. FiT is RPI linked which I set at 2% cos that's government target figure, last 3 years were 3.5%, 4.2% and 2.8% from memory. Energy was rising 5 % per annum for the 6 years previous to PV boom, stabilised for a year and jumped around 10% this winter, so I set energy inflation at 5%. From customer feedback - couple at work all day, 30% of energy generated is self used, hence that number. And you get to save the planet a bit

some of my systems are set to payback within 5-6years. I have only 1 that will take 10 years - mistake on panel choice but still working well.

forgot to say look at blue box section.

tef.pdf

 

[binky]

The decline was inevitable it should not come as a shock, PV will have its place still as I said loads of commercial installs going on which is where I think it is better suited, especially when it comes to architectural glass and such like whole buildings as PV panels and you cant see them seems good.  

toatlly agree, technology should be built into every new building - why the firk do we put tiled roof on new houses and token gesture PV on top. Rediculous short sighted carp.

The debate here is really about energy and how we pay for it, renewables is a part of that (a small one) and PV is a part of that small section in my opinion its not the best in that small section for our country, we have alot of shore line and coast that could make use of other renewables, PV has come over from mainland europe where the climate suits and they have little shoreline. But it was a earner so people bought into it. 

PV and wind turbines are quick easy fix that's easy to involve people at most levels of society. Real benefit is 'point of use' generation removing distribution losses and problems. Downside is lack of real usefullness in all conditions. Cost to Joe Public is defo justifiable compared to the alternatives, but I think opportunities have been missed, like insisting solar farms can still be used with grazing for animals, and not just wasting farm land.

Underinvestment at the correct time is the real problem i think, im just not sure the energy companies earn more from investing in power stations or just shafting the customer at every possible opportunity so why would they invest im sure they earn the same either way?!  

Lots of money has been invested by big business like Shell and BP, who have bought out many patents for renewable and alternative technolgies - guess what they are planning to do as oil runs out. The downside of the state not investing in technologies is that big businesses will stitch us up. Free market capitalism at its best

 

[binky]

bit posher than mine lol.

 

[binky]

when you engineer something properly, this can happen.....

http://www.evwind.es/2013/06/02/germany-sets-new-solar-power-record/33313?goback=.gde_1873163_member_246084745

 

[Sidewinder]

Yes, i read somewhere they export there PV in the summer months as they generate so much.

Shame our Government and Energy Companies are run by small minded idiots (in some cases of the public school boy brigade) that are only interested in back handers, their own pockets and conning the public.

Like the rest of UK big business then, run for the good of the "old boys brigade" and stuff everyone else.

Proven by the banking industry incompetence.

 

[binky]

it's difficult not to get old and cynical with all the idiots in charge :^O

Last year the Germans knocked down the wholesale price of electric across Europe at one stage, they only had 14Gw installed then. Now they have 22Gw, an extra 8 Gw in 1 year. Should do some interesting things to leccy prices. I read somewhere that it's equivalent of 22 Nuclear Power stations.

 

[binky]

not everyone can be arsed to read links so a few little taster phrases get more interest. As for me, I only ever scan read such stuff then wonder where the hell I saw comments like that. :innocent

 

[apprentice87]

Even better idea, instead of all this PV nonsense, why not coal fired powerstations using some of the 300 years supply of coal we have here. There would be LOADS of jobs created building the power stations, digging the mines, the railways would have a mini boom carrying the stuff, engineering service industries would take off again repairing all this kit, the russians could keep their gas etc etc.

As it is now, thanks to thatcher the economic genius, all our utility firms were sold off, cos you cannot go having nationalised industries now can you.. Funny how EDF seem to be doing quite well, but this time, now when you pay your leccy bill, you are making a french nationalised industry richer. Could not make it up..

Think of this, now, be careful here boys, cos this is complicated, probably beyond the grasp of "ordinary people" cos it was dreamt up by near geniuses remember. Everytime you turn on a light now, it counts as an import, and money is flowing out of britain. Obvious you say?? not to the "financial geniuses" it wasnt...

 

[binky]

Have to say I would rather use home dug coal than Russian gas or Nuclear. But it isn't really the answer to NOT destroying our own planet. We need to stop short term thinking the whole issue, look forward 50 years and build a strategy on that, but I still think coal has a part to play. What happened to energy security being of national importance????

I totally objected to 'free marketing' of national industries like water, leccy and gas - why the hell are we letting French or other countries benefit from our resources. It's not like we have seen much improvement in services, or that those countries have opened up their industries for us to compete in! It was all about being a skint country and using other peoples capitol, problem is we are now stuck with it, private companies don't invest in infrastructure cos its bad for shareholders, and consequently we creak forward in pathetic little lurches. Competition is good, but there are limits....

As for PV, apparently it employs around 200,000 people across Europe, hence most EU countries voted in favour of not taxing Chinese panels dumped at artificially low prices to save 8000 European PV manufacturing jobs. Guess which big companies lobbied for that (and won) in their own short term self-interest

 

[M107]

While traveling down to Devon I watched a monster install of PV going on in some fields beside the A303............looks rather impressive.

 

[binky]

this is part of a farm we work on - 25 acres, 5 MWp, you can see it from A38 if you travel over the Tamar bridge to Cornwall. Odd thing is that you hardly notice it, just looks like a 'dark field'. Most of the farms are now this size and bigger cos of the economics of building such places. I prefer them to 150m tall wind turbines, they tend to be far less noticeable, even if wind is probably a better technology.

You certainly didn't see this one. Grade 1 listed church near Fowey, panels are just visible from 1 point of private drive adjacent to church