This machine blew my clamp meter up.

[Andy™]

The bloke who came to look at it agrees with you (about the full weld current passing through the machine and the bonding), he said there is stray RF everywhere and has given me alist of bonding tasks to do. He says being an indian built machine there are a lot of improvements that can be done. Of course it was on AC volts, my neon two wire voltage indicator went the same way too

good thing you didnt use one of those neon screwdrivers that uses your body...

 

[Sidewinder]

Martin,

Does you client realise the ramifications of the fact that the machine does not meet EU regulations, i.e. PUWER98, The LVD & the MD?

I guess this means that he imported it himself from the manuf'?

He would be in heap big doo doos if there was a reportable incident or accident as he would be deemed the importer under law and also the user!

You need to be sure that the guy giving you the advice is competent and insured to do so and that you have it in writing.

Also you should check that your insurance will cover you too.

I would hate this to go wrong for you now!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I may decline the work on the machine itself. I have found that there is an earthrod already installed and connected to that. it gives a very satisfying 0.14 ohms reading on my 4 wire earthe electrode resistance meter.

I have soley bonded the machine to this and upgraded the bond from the moving head to the fixed structure of the machine from 4 to 10mm. I took a loop reading at the machine and it is now also reading 0.14 ohms in line with what I got from the spike.

The chap is coming back tm to do more work on the machine. Will keep you posted

 

[steptoe]

I may decline the work on the machine itself. I have found that there is an earthrod already installed and connected to that. it gives a very satisfying 0.14 ohms reading on my 4 wire earthe electrode resistance meter.I have soley bonded the machine to this and upgraded the bond from the moving head to the fixed structure of the machine from 4 to 10mm. I took a loop reading at the machine and it is now also reading 0.14 ohms in line with what I got from the spike.

The chap is coming back tm to do more work on the machine. Will keep you posted

just a quick note,

have you used a suitably rated cable?

Im sure you have, but just as an injuncture I thought Id ask.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I may decline the work on the machine itself. I have found that there is an earthrod already installed and connected to that. it gives a very satisfying 0.14 ohms reading on my 4 wire earthe electrode resistance meter.I have soley bonded the machine to this and upgraded the bond from the moving head to the fixed structure of the machine from 4 to 10mm. I took a loop reading at the machine and it is now also reading 0.14 ohms in line with what I got from the spike.

The chap is coming back tm to do more work on the machine. Will keep you posted

Please do keep the forum updated martin, this is a very interesting thread, even for those just reading and not contributing. Thank you for bringing it to the forum. Nice change from the threads about the mate who fitted a shower or a light and it stopped working.

Doc H.

 

[Sidewinder]

Martin,

One comment on the bond upgrade PLEASE tell me you did NOT use 6491x type conduit wire!

if you did get back there and change it for tri rated as if the head is moving as I understand it, thent he 6491x will last virtually no time at all before it fails completely!

This type of wiring material is NOT at all suitable for moving parts.

 

[kme]

Further - you need to be aware that if there is RF current travelling around the machine, "simple" bonding isn`t going to make a huge difference. If the RF decoupling was failing, for instance; the RF isn`t referenced to earth anywhere; so rods and bonds won`t make much difference........

Unless mssr. Artois is messing with my head....but I don`t think so.

 

[philbas]

:YGuinnessGuinness

Please do keep the forum updated martin, this is a very interesting thread, even for those just reading and not contributing.Doc H.

I second this, I am just reading, I woudn't even know where to begin with contributing.

However as a tip for anyone learning like myself, Google is your friend, look up the strange words they are useing, after a while and a couple of beers you almost start to make sense of it

Then someone adds another post and you are lost again, but this is how you learn

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Right I have the dreaded lurgi today and feel completely ****.

So to take the points in turn.

I have used 6 by 50mm copperstrip to connect the MET to the spike.

The machine RF travelling around it what the RF guy is sorting out. I will go and see him later if I manage to drag myself out of my sick bed.

I am going to cancel everything else.

SW I will go back and check.

BTW I found that the former 4mm earth wire had a twisted together connection in machines connection box. I can't believe that this can be good.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:04 ----------

Oh and the manufacturer has put a CE mark on the machine

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:16 ----------

And the owner of the company also brought me a brand new Megger DCM330 Fork Multimeter

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:17 ----------

[quote name='Andy

 

[kme]

Do you know what frequencies the welder is using Martin? Once you start climbing the HF band, the physiological effects can be far worse than the "RF burn" . The "victim" you mention - was there a visible burn, or was the complaint of an "internal" pain?

 

[batty]

I cannot believe the owner is letting people use the machine if people have reported getting shocks from it it should have been isolated and fixed.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I think that is a true sentiment that I share. I told him to lock it off until it is fixed. Which he has now done. Day two of the fixing is happening tommorrow

 

[m4tty]

Did this get fixed in the end and if so what was it mate ?

 

[Andy™]

he's never been back since jan 14th

 

[kerching]

...in that case then I would assume the worst......................... :coat

 

[OnOff]

The CE marking thing is interesting. I have had some experience in the area of marking overseas kit with CE marks. Basically it amounts to little more than submitting a "Technical File" with an "Approved Body" who hold it for say 10 years and you pay them a grand for that. Job done. The Approved Body do nothing more than file the Technical File in a safe place. You basically make a declaration that the kit is designed in accordance with whatever EN standard it's meant to be. There's a bit in the Machinery Directive about it. So I can see how some dodgy kit from India would easily have a CE mark.

 

[Sidewinder]

Onoff,

There is a bit less to it than that as it is not necessary for all kit to deposit the file with a Notified Body.

Also, there are times when there is MORE to it than that, when equipment actually must be inspected and certified by an independent notified body prior to being placed on the market.

The point I "think" I was trying to make is that if it bears the CE mark then it must comply with the relevant standards and legislation. If it does not, then the manufacturer is at fault.

There are several possible offences being committed by the manufacturer and the importer into the EU (if different), in other words the "person" placing the machine onto the market, and this also applies for equipment "made for own use", if the "machine" does not comply with all of the relevant standards and directives.

End of story.

However, the user will be the one HSE go for.

Easy meat as they say.

 

[Andy™]

The CE marking thing is interesting. I have had some experience in the area of marking overseas kit with CE marks. Basically it amounts to little more than submitting a "Technical File" with an "Approved Body" who hold it for say 10 years and you pay them a grand for that. Job done. The Approved Body do nothing more than file the Technical File in a safe place. You basically make a declaration that the kit is designed in accordance with whatever EN standard it's meant to be. There's a bit in the Machinery Directive about it. So I can see how some dodgy kit from India would easily have a CE mark.

and here's me thinking it only has to be Chinese Equipment to get a CE marking...