Valve Actuator Clicking

[catch_phrase]

Hello All,

I hope you can help

I have a boiler in the in the landing like most houses and in there I have 3 Siemens Actuators

EDIT: Cannot add links to the Siemens Actuator as Im a newbie so it's a Siemes CZV222 2 Port Zone Valve

They control, upstairs, downstairs and the water boiler itself.

Recently the one controlling the boiler was acting up but it has now moved on to the actuator controlling the valve for the upstairs heating(controlled by a thermostat).

They are CLICKING so I opened them I find they are clicking as though trying to close the valve. The spring(s) are bouncing back and forth but the actual unit isn't making a difference to the movement of the valve which is of course separate. There is no issue with opening and closing the valve as I can do this with my own hands when the actuator is removed.

I have ONE actuator ordered for next week so change it out.

Is there something I'm doing or should be doing?

 

[ProDave]

3 port or 2 port?  (i.e how many pipes into each actuator)

 

[catch_phrase]

3 port or 2 port? (i.e how many pipes into each actuator)

Hi Dave,

Two port as in its just one pipe/connection/valve running under the actuator.

 

[ProDave]

That's unusual then.

A 2 port valve is either on or off.  You energise it and the motor spins round until it stalls at the end stop.  De energise it and it returns under spring pressure.

It's the 3 port valves that have a more complex mechanism to allow them to stop mid way, and if one of their microswitches fails, they will hunt backwards and forwards like you describe.

another thought. you are not trying to energise the actuator with it removed from the valve are you?  Some makes (I think honeywell is one but not sure about Siemens) rely on the end stop in the valve body. If you power the actuator while not connected to the body, there is no end stop to stall the motor at the end of travel, and it over runs and "twangs" back.

 

[NozSpark]

To me it sounds like its got a worn gearbox,,, I.e. the motor gear slipping on the actuator can gear.

You say that you've managed to remove the head and that the valve moves freely,, so I'd just replace the head. If the valve body is at all stiff then I'd look at replacing the complete unit

 

[catch_phrase]

Thank you both.

Dave I don't really understand the whole end stop and energise but. If I switch the thermostat to bow the current temperature of the room, I.e zero nothing obviously happens but its when I turn the temp up its tries to open the valve but the valve as far as I can tell is already open. I haven't found a way of getting the actuator back onto the valve in the closed position so its trying to open an open valve I suppose. So the heating irrespective of the setting stays on full because its trying to close it but just snapping back.

Noz,

It's not that the valve moves freely when the actuator is off of it. I don't know what's it actually doing when the actuator is on it but see above for what I'm getting at.

I have a new actuator ordered anyway and a local heating engineer might be looking at it Monday if I can't find a solution that costs me only parts.

If I can avoid labour I will try of course.

 

[NozSpark]

Let's make it easy,,

If you have the head off the valve and then try and turn the valove spigot, it should turn really easily. If it doesn't then the valve body has had it.

This could also damage the valve head, so if the bid has had it then its better to replace the whole valve

 

[catch_phrase]

Yep valve is fine as far as I can tell. I figured it was mostly the electrical end of things and even concerned myself if I needed a heating engineer or an electrician.

 

[NozSpark]

Cough "engineer"

 

[ProDave]

To get the actuator on with it de energised, just turn the spigot on the valve until it lines up with the slot in the actuator head.

Normally (though not necessarily with all makes) when the spigot is in line with the pipe, the valve is open, when it runs across the pipe, the valve is closed.

 

[catch_phrase]

Yep that's exactly how it is lines up so its open when I put it on but judging by the way it appears to be turning it appears it trying to open an open valve.

Now, how to get it to get into a closed position. Btw, in case you might ask it has an auto/man position and I have tried it using both positions.

 

[ProDave]

If you slide the override to the "man" position, it will usually latch there. Make sure you un latch it and allow it to return to the "auto" position for normal use.

That will close the actuator. Then make sure the valve lines up as you put the two back together.

 

[catch_phrase]

Heating Eng had a look at it. Wants to replace all 3 valves with Mysons + Labour.

Only one valve in my opinion is shot but he says it's best to replace all 3 together which is a fair assumption.

Fair enough £200 total which is fair enough because the labour is only £20 although I have a replacement Siemens Actuator coming tomorrow so will try that first.(It essentially cost me nothing with some wheeling and dealing) so if all fails £200 will be shelled out.

 

[ProDave]

£20 labour to change three valve actuators AND valve bodies?

That probably means draining the whole system and re filling it.

Sounds too cheap.

 

[catch_phrase]

Sorry I was converting from Euro to £'s. I get a better response in the UK forums than the Irish ones. Irish forums were giving little results. It's €40 and todays exchange rate is £34 so I was a little off.

Parts then are about €180.

Also, he's a local guy so it's a "on the way to a job" or "on the way home" Job hence the price I'd say. Small village with a small village website for local business and he's on it. Support the local I guess.

As I see it, drain system, change valves, wire actuators, fill system, check and go home. Said it would take about 30-40minutes.

Myson aren't the cheapest but I cannot find a supplier who does Siemens off the shelf. They can order them in but at nearly double the price of online.(go figure).

 

[NozSpark]

£20 labour to change three valve actuators AND valve bodies?

That probably means draining the whole system and re filling it.

Sounds too cheap.

Unless the original installer fitted iso valves

 

[Steve3948]

Seen them each side of the pump but not on the valves, it would be nice though if they all had them.

 

[NozSpark]

TBH my plumber hardly ever drains a vented system,,, he just sticks a bung in the overflow and supply from tank....

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hello All,

I hope you can help

I have a boiler in the in the landing like most houses and in there I have 3 Siemens Actuators

EDIT: Cannot add links to the Siemens Actuator as Im a newbie so it's a Siemes CZV222 2 Port Zone Valve

Sorry I was converting from Euro to £'s. I get a better response in the UK forums than the Irish ones. Irish forums were giving little results. It's €40 and todays exchange rate is £34 so I was a little off.

Parts then are about €180.

Also, he's a local guy so it's a "on the way to a job" or "on the way home" Job hence the price I'd say. Small village with a small village website for local business and he's on it. Support the local I guess.

As I see it, drain system, change valves, wire actuators, fill system, check and go home. Said it would take about 30-40minutes.

Myson aren't the cheapest but I cannot find a supplier who does Siemens off the shelf. They can order them in but at nearly double the price of online.(go figure).

siemens CZV222 ?

Screwfix £49.99 each ???

http://www.screwfix.com/p/siemens-czv222-2-port-zone-valve/77334?_requestid=347122

Heating Eng had a look at it. Wants to replace all 3 valves with Mysons + Labour.

Only one valve in my opinion is shot but he says it's best to replace all 3 together which is a fair assumption.

Fair enough £200 total which is fair enough because the labour is only £20 although I have a replacement Siemens Actuator coming tomorrow so will try that first.(It essentially cost me nothing with some wheeling and dealing) so if all fails £200 will be shelled out.

I think I would be wanting to prove exactly which ones are working and not working...

If you think 2 are good why waste £100+  labour for swapping two working valves??

p.s.

go to another supplier and buy just the head!

 

[ProDave]

Unless the original installer fitted iso valves

I'm having trouble with one of my Danfoss valve bodies sticking occasionally on my 10 year old heating system.  The work involved in changing the valve body, has convinced my that when I plumb my next house, it WILL have isolators either side of each motorised valve.