When Domestic Installers Should Stay at Home

[Manator]

I gave up my job just before Christmas and have since found new employment with an expanding company who have taken me on to carry out all their testing and compliance.

Last week I was testing a commercial premises that had some work done only 2 years previously. The 3 phase board had some really nice purple domestic installer stickers on, no problem, lets see what we have.

The circuits that the domestic installer worked on was a lighting circuit in the gents shower room, a hand dryer in the gents toilet and two extractor fans. Also 2 x 8.5kW electric showers. The rest of the installation is around 20 years old with the board being changed around 4 years ago. I did not have any previous certificates but I did have a 20 year old circuit designation chart with the board layout.

The lighting circuit as no continuity on the cpc, its been cut at each light fitting. All the lights are connected with choc blocks not enclosed and the two 240v extractor fans are directly connected to the lighting circuit via the very same choc blocks in zone one of the shower rooms. No isolators fitted.

The two 8.5kW showers are wired directly from the board with no isolation, and the board is in a locked cabinet, staff are not always on site as the premises is open to members who have access via key pad.

None of the circuits worked on have any earth sleeving, at either end. The RCBO's protecting the showers are 32amp and are NSB wylex types and the board is a different type so the breakers do not fit properly I think the board is PSB from memory. The showers will happily draw 36amp so there is some clever use of the time curve here I think. The shower room is fed from all three phases the showers are on ph1 and ph2 and the lighting, fan and hand dryer on ph 1.

The 20 year old installation is fine, and still fitted and working as it should be, then again there were no such thing as domestic installers in those days. No wonder there has been an increase in consumer fires.

 

[kerching]

In the wholesalers today...new DI comes in....toolbelt on full,of shiny carp tools and poncy Estwing ,'forward weight hammer?'

wanted a fuse board....one of those big ones!,

brought him out an 18 way

far too small! Wanted a 36 way "factory board"!!

did not need breakers as he had loads of them left from other jobs where he had been fitting B&Q boards!

i drank my coffee and left

 

[Murdoch]

Any documentation from the recent installs?

 

[Andy™]

Any documentation from the recent installs?

might have been a bit bog roll left?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I found similarly bad things whilst carrying out an inspection in a church & communal halls. The NICEIC domestic  installers also installed a full fire alarm and emergency lighting, both of which were completely wrong  (my favorite was the fire alarm supply wired in flex clipped along skirting and plugged into a socket ) & did not meet any of the BS's. NICEIC did not want to know as they were only Di's so the work was outside of there remit  ( or something similar to that)

 

[Murdoch]

I found similarly bad things whilst carrying out an inspection in a church & communal halls. The NICEIC domestic  installers also installed a full fire alarm and emergency lighting, both of which were completely wrong  (my favorite was the fire alarm supply wired in flex clipped along skirting and plugged into a socket ) & did not meet any of the BS's. NICEIC did not want to know as they were only Di's so the work was outside of there remit  ( or something similar to that)

What utter tripe.

If and I say if the NICEIC actually want to earn some respect, they need to follow up in such reports and do something about them. As it stands the credibility of the NICEIC sinks to new lows as each week passes!

 

[Andy™]

id expect NICEY to be very interested if they were using their logo on commercial without being registered for it. misuse of logo and all that. as usual, they wouldnt be interested in the dodgy work though

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for the tip.

Next time I run out of earth sleeving (or leave it behind on the previous job) just cut the CPC off at all the fittings.  Sorted.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

id expect NICEY to be very interested if they were using their logo on commercial without being registered for it. misuse of logo and all that. as usual, they wouldnt be interested in the dodgy work though

The installation cert (no emg ltg or fire certs)   was a Di one, the Nic did not seem bothered, the customer  also could not be bothered and paid me to correct the electrics after the installers came back twice. The secretary told me she did not want them in the building and for me to just get on with it. The fire alarms and emg lights have never been corrected.

 

[Blue Duck]

I'm a DI :C

but...I know my limits

 

[Risteard]

The installation cert (no emg ltg or fire certs)   was a Di one

Surely completely out of scope!

And I take it you are saying that the BS 5266 and BS 5839 certs were non-existant as opposed to non-NIC ones used? (But I suppose how could they have been certified when they are completey wrong!)

 

[Manator]

I'm a DI :C

but...I know my limits

Your one of the better ones!!

In fact there is nothing wrong with a domestic installer providing they stay within their remit. If they wish to progress then for the sake of safety do the extra courses that teach the absolute basics and science behind electrickory.

The install I inspected showed a total lack of pride, self respect and a basic knowledge of electrical basic principles.

I also know some domestic installers who would put to shame many time served electricians, but only on this forum!

 

[Murdoch]

I think the term AC member and DI are very misleading.

Single Phase and Multi Phase would be better!

 

[Sharpend]

So how'd they market that then? 

SP , MP or combined SMP would be a little politically challenging for some? 

 

[Murdoch]

So how'd they market that then? 

SP , MP or combined SMP would be a little politically challenging for some? 

Who cares. There are countless chancers out there and nobody seems to give a txss

I simply think that DI is wrong as there are loads of 3 phase homes around me and also there are loads of 1 phase shops and small units - I know which are more dangerous!

 

[Andy™]

but many commercial places are SP, so that wouldnt really work. few month ago i posted a pic of a welder that i blew the fuses seconds after being plugged in.... turns out their muppet 'electrician' had fitted 32a 4 pin sockets for the welders, presumably because he had seen it elsewhere. unfortunately, it was only SP supply, with live to L1 and neutral to L3....

 

[Essex1]

Surely completely out of scope!

And I take it you are saying that the BS 5266 and BS 5839 certs were non-existant as opposed to non-NIC ones used? (But I suppose how could they have been certified when they are completey wrong!)

I don't think S&S is as pompous as you. 

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I will take that as a compliment

 

[Evans Electric]

I'm a DI :C

but...I know my limits

I look up to him , but look down on HIM .

I know my place .

Copyright  ;   The Frost Show.

 

[pewter]

My recent NIC visit i was surprised that for my DI i now only had to show 1 full scope Job, half day visit (2.5hrs).

He said AC is now 3 jobs day visit and all 3 can be domestic.

I had put off going AC as organising 5 jobs woud have being difficult for me, a lot of my commercial jobs are places which would be difficult to allow NICEIC to visit on the day they choose.

Spend an extra £3-400 a year, whole day assessment, 3 jobs to arrange to be AC, has no benifits to me really. Most of my customers dont know much about it and are not that bothered either. Im constantly busy and have never been requested to be AC by anyone.