Which EICR tests cannot be done with a 6 in 1?

[SirLouen]

I was trying to check the equipment required for EICR testing and AFAIK, I see that the 6 in 1 like Megger 1825 can do all tests except for the functional and the visual inspection ones for obvious reasons.

1. Continuity of protective and bonding conductors
2. Continuity of ring final circuit
3. Insulation resistance
4. Polarity testing
5. Earth electrode resistance
6. Earth fault loop impedance
7. RCD disconnection timing phase rotation test

Am I missing anything?

 

[Murdoch]

Does it test all types of RCD ?

 

[SirLouen]

Does it test all types of RCD ?

For type B you need one upper model, MFT1835 instead of 25. Still, I would choose 25 because I rarely see a type-B RDS in non-industrial environments.

Another option could be the Kewtech KT65DL (only tests A & AC RCDs though) which is way cheaper, and also includes an Earth Electrode resistance tester.

Probably there are many other options, Megger and Kewtech are the most popular in UK AFAIK, but I wondered if there are any other important tests (mostly thinking on initial and periodic domestic inspections), that are not covered by this testers

 

[binky]

For type B you need one upper model, MFT1835 instead of 25. Still, I would choose 25 because I rarely see a type-B RDS in non-industrial environments.

Another option could be the Kewtech KT65DL (only tests A & AC RCDs though) which is way cheaper, and also includes an Earth Electrode resistance tester.

Probably there are many other options, Megger and Kewtech are the most popular in UK AFAIK, but I wondered if there are any other important tests (mostly thinking on initial and periodic domestic inspections), that are not covered by this testers

Can't think of anything you need to test that a MFT doesn't cover, it's what they are designed to do.

 

[SirLouen]

Can't think of anything you need to test that a MFT doesn't cover, it's what they are designed to do.

So, basically, AFAIK, in the UK with a MFT and a passed C&G 2391-52 assessment I'm ready to rock in EICR world?

 

[binky]

So, basically, AFAIK, in the UK with a MFT and a passed C&G 2391-52 assessment I'm ready to rock in EICR world?

Yep. Although the course doesn't really cover older installations, which causes a lot of the arguments on here. Old buggers like me don't fail stuff newly trained people tend to do, because they only know the current edition of the regs. Feel free to ask questions if you do encounter old system and you aren't sure if it's safe or not.

 

[Murdoch]

So, basically, AFAIK, in the UK with a MFT and a passed C&G 2391-52 assessment I'm ready to rock in EICR world?

and your experience at the coal face is ?

if it’s none, then I’d say you are not competent

 

[SirLouen]

if it’s none, then I’d say you are not competent

You can always sin in both sides. Too much knowledge or too much experience.

But most of the people with too much experience I know are like the ones that are mentioned here:



Anyway, you always have to start from somewhere, don't you?

 

[kerching]

Anyway, any fool can write down numbers off a meter, or worse still get one that comes up,with a big or

Being able to correctly interpret the results is an entirely different matter

 

[SirLouen]

Anyway, any fool can write down numbers off a meter, or worse still get one that comes up,with a big or

And any fool can put some cables and tighten some screws.
Thing is that one has to start from somewhere.
I prefer those who start by understanding why those screws must be tightened first and in which order than those that have just been tightening them for ages just because someone told them that it was the best thing without a foundation

 

[Gian]

and your experience at the coal face is ?

if it’s none, then I’d say you are not competent

You only obtain that experience by doing the job, sooner or later you have to go it alone and you will come across all sorts of problems which you would never see in a colledge test board. If you have colleges or friends who are electricians don't feel imbarrised to ask questions if you have any problems.

 

[revjames]

visual checks for a start

 

[binky]

And any fool can put some cables and tighten some screws.
Thing is that one has to start from somewhere.
I prefer those who start by understanding why those screws must be tightened first and in which order than those that have just been tightening them for ages just because someone told them that it was the best thing without a foundation

You would be surprised how many struggle to do that properly .

To gain experience, test your home, test the neighbours, in fact, test any system you can get to for friends and family before going out into the paying customer world. It's also worth having a good read of all the posts on here that ask what Code to give a fault.

 

[Murdoch]

The problem is that in general electrical installations in the UK tend to cover the period 1950 to 2022 - that's 70 years of regs changes, and a huge number of different types of construction to deal with.

Newly trained people now think only about the current regs and have little of knowledge of the previous versions (not helped by code breakers) and go around handing out C2 codes like confetti - whereas lots should be C3 or merely a comment.

Just saying

 

[Fleeting]

So, basically, AFAIK, in the UK with a MFT and a passed C&G 2391-52 assessment I'm ready to rock in EICR world?

Well done for passing the C&G but this is a small step in being competent to carry out an EICR. I have always said I could teach my mother how to use a tester but it is knowing what is right and wrong in an electrical installation which forms the bones of an EICR.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

So, basically, AFAIK, in the UK with a MFT and a passed C&G 2391-52 assessment I'm ready to rock in EICR world?

If you use the guidance from the C&G website regarding the 2391-52 qualification...
https://www.cityandguilds.com/quali...-and-testing#tab=information&acc=general-info

from which they state..

This qualification delivers the specialist knowledge and skills you need, including appropriate legislation, inspection and testing techniques, completing and issuing certificates or reports and understanding of results and measurements

Then theoretically yes.. Assuming you also have appropriate insurance in place...
In case the poop hits the fan following a report you have issued!!

(However, there are many who claim the modern 2391 is an easier qualification than the older closed book handwritten days of 2391..
and thus, the competence, knowledge and experience levels are not quite as high..
Hence some of the debates on here about what classification codes should be issued..
and if there actually is any immediate or potential danger on an installation that was compliant with an earlier version of BS7671!)
.

 

[binky]

If you use the guidance from the C&G website regarding the 2391-52 qualification...
https://www.cityandguilds.com/quali...-and-testing#tab=information&acc=general-info

from which they state..



Then theoretically yes.. Assuming you also have appropriate insurance in place...
In case the poop hits the fan following a report you have issued!!

(However, there are many who claim the modern 2391 is an easier qualification than the older closed book handwritten days of 2391..
and thus, the competence, knowledge and experience levels are not quite as high..
Hence some of the debates on here about what classification codes should be issued..
and if there actually is any immediate or potential danger on an installation that was compliant with an earlier version of BS7671!)
.

I believe it's been split into 2 parts, basic testing and advanced, the latter being the bit that made the old exam hard.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I believe it's been split into 2 parts, basic testing and advanced, the latter being the bit that made the old exam hard.

As I understand it and from the C&G website..
Sirlouen has done the more comprehensive 2391-52 option.
(I may be wrong as I am not up to date on these new-fangled course numbers!)

Even so, from what I have heard through the grapevine the '52' option is still an easier path than the old 2391...
e.g. had a higher failure rate than the modern qualification.



Some cynical persons within the trade have hinted that the course was dumbed down a bit to get more punters & cash-in-the-bank!!!

But.. at the end of the day.. if that is what those compiling courses to assess competence consider sufficient...
then who are we to disagree??

AND...
anyone who does want to get into inspection & testing to a greater depth can only do the courses available!

The only tip I would say to anyone doing an EICR is make sure you have a good grasp of what is an immediate or potential danger to people property or livestock..
And remember a Non-compliance with current regs is NOT by default a danger!!

 

[UNG]

Some cynical persons within the trade have hinted that the course was dumbed down a bit to get more punters & cash-in-the-bank!!!

And isn't that exactly what has happened you don't need to be cynical about it

But.. at the end of the day.. if that is what those compiling courses to assess competence consider sufficient...
then who are we to disagree??

But how much real world current on site knowledge or experience do these people have when setting the competence levels required when they appear to be more au fait with a balance sheet

anyone who does want to get into inspection & testing to a greater depth can only do the courses available!

And the problem is they are not as they seem to miss out the basic courses that give the underpinning knowledge needed to support the 2391

The only tip I would say to anyone doing an EICR is make sure you have a good grasp of what is an immediate or potential danger to people property or livestock..
And remember a Non-compliance with current regs is NOT by default a danger!!

Good advice