Working in shops

[m4tty]

Hi,

Ive been asked to price up some additional sockets in a shop. Ive only ever worked in domestic so am not too confident. Any pointers ? to help me out please. RCD required?

Thanks for any help

Matt

 

[Zeespark]

RCD ideal but not required if its fed by PVC conduit or trunking.

AndyGuinness

 

[ProDave]

All I know is working in any commercial premises can be a lot harder than domestic, for logistical reasons.

For a start, when you want to isolate a circuit, there's usually an outcry that they can't carry on working, and then there's the pain of getting everyone to shut down the computers before you can switch off. Oh and I generally find commercial is even less likely to have the circuits identified at the DB than domestic, so you need to turn off one ring final, but you can't be sure which one, you have to virtually close down the whole building while you work it out. Try doing that in a large office building with probably 100 cpmputers.

But the plus side, you are far more likely to find circuits in conduit and trunking, so usually a lot easier to modify than domestic.

Unless you find the nightmare I encountered in an estate agents shop. They wanted a socket moving. I turned off everything at the DB, but the socket remained live. After much searching for another DB and some asking around, I found the answer. This shop was half of a larger shop that had been divided in two, and it turned out this one socket was fed from the shop next door. They came to a gentleman's agreement not to use that socket, and I installed a new one from their own DB. The shop next door would not even let me turn anything off to replace the socket with a blanking plate.

 

[Lee321]

RCD ideal but not required if its fed by PVC conduit or trunking.AndyGuinness

its required if used by untrained for general purpose use regardless of cable being metallic sheathed/protected

 

[Zeespark]

My apologies. :coatbad day explode

AndyGuinness

 

[Sidewinder]

its required if used by untrained for general purpose use regardless of cable being metallic sheathed/protected

lostit,

In a business premises of any kind RCD's are not really required on any sockets, as all persons are instructed.

The legislation of EAWR & PUWER kick in and personnel using electrical equipment must be instructed in its use and, the supplied equipment and systems, must be adequately maintained and safe in use.

ITIS - Information, Training, Instruction & Supervision.

That is one of the acronyms you learn if you do a NEBOSH General.

All personnel must be given suitable H&S training when they commence a post and this must be ongoing.

Electrical safety must be part of this if they come into contact with electrical equipment.

Thus, you can omit RCD protection as the sockets are not for use by normal persons, there are none, unless they are for use by the general public.

 

[sellers]

Unless the socket outlet is likely to be used for outside equipment, regardless of under supervision or not.

For example, installing a socket in the front porch of a nursing home. Come xmas they'll have a tree outside plugged into that.

 

[Sidewinder]

Sellers,

Yep, that is very true, did not cross my mind when replying to the other post!

However, it would be required if in that type of circumstance.

 

[Megaohm7]

Be prepared for working out of hours as there is a problem with computers in use etc .. Unless You are really lucky and some nice person has clearly labelled all circuits and You can locally isolate without causing too much disruption .. each job is different though it's all good experience. Try and be methodical

 

[Lee321]

lostit,In a business premises of any kind RCD's are not really required on any sockets, as all persons are instructed.

The legislation of EAWR & PUWER kick in and personnel using electrical equipment must be instructed in its use and, the supplied equipment and systems, must be adequately maintained and safe in use.

ITIS - Information, Training, Instruction & Supervision.

That is one of the acronyms you learn if you do a NEBOSH General.

All personnel must be given suitable H&S training when they commence a post and this must be ongoing.

Electrical safety must be part of this if they come into contact with electrical equipment.

Thus, you can omit RCD protection as the sockets are not for use by normal persons, there are none, unless they are for use by the general public.

i dispute that. i'd say only business premises of a technical nature with technically minded employees/visitors would be classed as instructed such as maintenance personal.

other senario is a warehouse worker will have no instruction of possible electrical issues with socket outlets i.e the sockets in the factory are not rcd protected you should take extra care when using electrical appliances

 

[Evans Electric]

M4tty , don't be put off from commercial work . Its all work , just do it .

Supposed scenario :- "Thanks for doing a good job and not disrupting the shop to much, how would you like to look after all our other branches".

 

[Lee321]

M4tty , don't be put off from commercial work . Its all work , just do it . Supposed scenario :- "Thanks for doing a good job and not disrupting the shop to much, how would you like to look after all our other branches".

:Applaud

 

[Sidewinder]

i dispute that. i'd say only business premises of a technical nature with technically minded employees/visitors would be classed as instructed such as maintenance personal.other senario is a warehouse worker will have no instruction of possible electrical issues with socket outlets i.e the sockets in the factory are not rcd protected you should take extra care when using electrical appliances

lostit,

Sorry you may dispute it as much as you like but the H&S legislation to require it is enshrined in law, end of.

Any person in employment is legally required to be suitably instructed, trained, supervised and provided with all necessary relevant information.

This is in PUWER98 & MHSWR amongst others.

(Taking my qualified H&S cap off now!)

 

[Lee321]

lostit,Sorry you may dispute it as much as you like but the H&S legislation to require it is enshrined in law, end of.

Any person in employment is legally required to be suitably instructed, trained, supervised and provided with all necessary relevant information.

This is in PUWER98 & MHSWR amongst others.

(Taking my qualified H&S cap off now!)

its not practiced.

end of.

the law maybe so but the electrical contracting industry do not practice it.

 

[steptoe]

its not practiced.end of.

the law maybe so but the electrical contracting industry do not practice it.

but as long as you comply then its not your issue.

are you going to go around your neighbours house and take down the light on his shed just because he exported his questionable PME earth to it?

as long as you fulfil your legal obligations then you are OK.

if you worried about everyone else then you will never make money.

 

[Evans Electric]

See what I meant about creating problems , just do it , get paid ,get laid, move on ,get drunk, marry the girl next door , have kids , scratch your arse , die at the appointed time and no one will care about the job in the shop.

 

[Apache]

See what I meant about creating problems , just do it , get paid ,get laid, move on ,get drunk, marry the girl next door , have kids , scratch your arse , die at the appointed time and no one will care about the job in the shop.

:Applaud

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Excluding all of the reg's bits...

basic H&S such as....

Trailing leads, tools & equipment lying around, causing tripping hazards... etc.

Ensuring your working practices don't endanger others..... etc..

can be a far greater issue in commercial, which you get less of in a domestic property!