You Need A Niceic Electrician Not A Cowboy?

[Nicky Tesla]

I was sent to a job to fit a bathroom fan, but was told that i didnot have to do a test on this job cos it has already been done. When i got there i immediately noticed the metal old style wylex DB was missing its front cover over the mcbs leaving a gap around the edges. There were no labels. A separate one mcb module above was missing a blank and all the bonding and earthconductor cables were under sized.

I looked at the last test done sticker and saw it was only done 2 months previous and the company was only 3 miles away, so i got in the van and popped round for a copy.

Page1.

1. The test was completed on an old periodic sheet.

2. The result was indeed UNsatisfactory but nobody seemed to know this fact.

3. No signature or name of the person that did the test.

Page2.

1. The supplementary bonding in the bathroom does not meet current regulations...............4 not C4

But the main switch is an RCD

2.This installation is protected by 1 RCD that is in our opinion non compliant with reg 314.1..........2

not C2, but why a 2 anyway. it would be inconvenient not dangerous

3. Main earthing and bonding conductors do not comply.................2

agreed but he thinks it is a tns and not a tncs

Page3.

System type...TNS it said PME on the incomer

Main switch........5419 100A RCD op times N/A............As already mentioned the main switch was an RCD main switch and therefore was certainly not a 5419. It was also 63A and obviously did have RCD op times. There was no other isolator

Earthing conductor 6mm Equi bonds 6mm

Labelling of protective devices....tick No labels present

Routing of cables in prescribed zones....tick Not LIM

Additional protection by 30mA .........X i thought the main switch was an RCD

Presence and correct location of de3vices for isolation and switching.....tick it was also mentioned that the boiler switch was in the loft

Page4.

After a load of dodgy results

Prospective fault current at the consumer unit.......N/A

(there were a lot more mistakes but il not mention them all)

The point is, is that many of you on here say not to get unregistered electricians without a part p certificate because they are all cowboys. Well the advice is always to get someone who is say NICEIC registered because they will know what they are doing and be more professional. The company that did the above test was NICEIC registered and in my opinion, are definitely a set of cowboys. :red card

 

[Steve3948]

Well they could be a member of any, the end result would be the same.

 

[ProDave]

I don't think I've ever suggested using a particular scam provider;s electricians. From my experience, some of the worst work I have seen and blatantly wrong understanding (or interpretation) of the regs has been from NICEIC members.

About the only recommendation I can give is use an experienced and recommended electrician.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

i said "say a NICEIC electrician" thats means for example, but all the civilians ask for NICEIC anyway.

 

[Manator]

There has always been some sort of prejudice towards the NICEIC, we often hear on this forum of bad examples of those members who are members of the NICEIC doing outrageous work.

The fact remains that there are good and bad in all schemes, and the sooner Part P registration is removed has an allowance for the ill informed the better. The fact still remains that at least the NICEIC do the full assessment, sadly lacking in some scheme providers.

The only way forward that I see is a fully independent system of assessments that way any assessed competent person or organisation can join whichever provider they want.

Liliberation!! Not revolution.

 

[steptoe]

Napit are the muppets for me,

I see a load more bad work from them rhan any other, I just think it happens to be whoever is more prevalent in an area then you are going to see a higher % of their work

 

[Steve3948]

+1 Steps

I never seem to be able to find out who did the previous works, customers always seem very guarded about disclosing through fear of getting in trouble I feel.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I looked at the last test done sticker and saw it was only done 2 months previous and the company was only 3 miles away, so i got in the van and popped round for a copy.

3. No signature or name of the person that did the test.

Do you mean you went to the company that had undertaken the tests to obtain a copy, why didn't the customer have a copy and did you complain to the company directly? They certainly look like someone copying figures from elsewhere and not understanding what they are writing. Any test sheet issued by any company from whatever contractor body means nothing if there is no name and signature of the person obtaining the test results. They carry as much value as an unsigned cheque. Have you asked the client to issue a complaint to the NICEIC against the company?

As has already been mentioned, comments about quantities of poor workmanship by NICEIC contractors is often due to percentages of contractors out there, not specifically that NICEIC are any worse than the other contractor bodies. It is quite probable that more Ford cars are involved in accidents than a lot of other makes, not because Ford are dangerous, just that statistically there are a lot of them. I suspect the percentages of good, average and poor electricians is quite similar across all approved contractor schemes. Cost cutting and reducing company budgets due to the economy is probably another key factor that influences how well some contractors do their work.

Doc H.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

No i just reported it to my "superiors" They said not our problem.

Also it seems most of you have missed the point im trying to make. The point is, when bad workmanship is found, many on here assume straight away that the electricians that fitted the offending items were non part p, 5 week wonders and not a member of a scheme such as NICEIC. The advice is to state that the workmanship would have been far better and professional if the work was done by for eg a NICEIC company. The evidence shown proves this not to be the case.

 

[ElectekAir]

I recently had a Napit contractor issue a fail certificate for a TT install we did last year because 17th edition board fitted and the two RCD's fitted should be 100mAand not 30mA. I agree that it is not the fault of the scam providers but the lack of knowlege form thier members

 

[binky]

No i just reported it to my "superiors" They said not our problem.

Also it seems most of you have missed the point im trying to make. The point is, when bad workmanship is found, many on here assume straight away that the electricians that fitted the offending items were non part p, 5 week wonders and not a member of a scheme such as NICEIC. The advice is to state that the workmanship would have been far better and professional if the work was done by for eg a NICEIC company. The evidence shown proves this not to be the case.

the evidence shown shows piss - poor supervision.

 

[elvis]

I have said it on here in the last few days.

The only thing that guarantees a customer a good job is the ability and the attitude of the guy who turns up to do the job.

The van sticker means nothing, and will continue to mean nothing until we have a legally recognised organisation that every electrician in the country has to be affiliated to. An organisation who Nicky Tesla should be able to report this to, and an organisation who will follow up on the complaint. Call the NIC and see how far you get Nicky... call it an experiment.

And... in the meantime, companies and individuals like this will continue to get away with stuff like this because none of the membership bodies give a monkies about the quality of the work after they have assessed you. They are competing companies and care only about stealing each others members and getting their money in every year. Anything else they say is hollow rhetoric.

I absolutely take the point that there are good and bad in and out of the schemes and it is not connected to any specific organisation, it is connected to the fact that electricians are humans and some humans, left unchecked, don't care what state they leave a place in.

Good on you for going round to them, did you ask him about any of the issues you had with the report?

 

[Nicky Tesla]

"Good on you for going round to them, did you ask him about any of the issues you had with the report?".

No i didnot look at the cert till i got back to the job, then i just phoned my boss and asked him what to do next.

.Another thing......we are a NICEIC company and the new guy who was doing a test asked me my advice .

"what code shall i put on the cert cos there is no rcd on the socket circuit"

"shall i put C1, thats not a fail is it?"

 

[ProDave]

I think Nicky has hit the nail on the head.

In the case of "a company" I don't think there is any requirement for ALL the employees to be vetted by the scheme provider. So there WILL be a lot of untrained and unverified sparks, operating under the umbrella of a scheme provider, but without full knowledge of what they are doing.

THAT is the problem that needs addressing.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

A new guy asked my advice today " there is no RCD on the socket circuit, shall i put C1, thats not a fail is it? "

 

[professional]

Take a look - and feel free to post your comments ....

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Government-response-CLG-Select-Committee-4412379.S.134205946?qid=b9c55528-cd78-40df-914d-57fcc875c3e8&trk=group_most_popular-0-b-ttl&goback=.gmp_4412379

 

[steptoe]

excellent link Prof,

I may well add my tuppence when I get some time,

currently in the middle of tiling......

 

[ProDave]

A night on the tiles step's?

 

[steptoe]

FFS Dave, I couldnt do this s*** for a living,

doing my head in,,,,,

 

[kme]

Thanks bud.......

Thoughts added.

I love the way you and PM bounce off each other - like an old-fashioned double team :slap