Connections Mag - Issue 185 - Big Mistake, Methinks

[kme]

I`m that far behind in my reading matter, that I`ve only just read the mag..........

And on page 61, they show a class 2 item (fan), connected to a 3 core flex, with the g/y sleeved brown on the ends, and used as a switched live. which they are suggesting is acceptable under 514.4.3

But, my reading is that 514.4.3 relates to a PEN conductor - not a phase conductor!

Before I make an idiot of myself (more than normal) - can you clarify that I`m reading / understanding this correctly please?

 

[Sidewinder]

Not even looked at the mag yet, but, I would say TOTALLY unacceptable, and not looked at the reg no. either.

I bet a reg can be found to prohibit this as much as allow it.

 

[wozz]

Haven't read the article and away from regs  X( but I'm sure there's one along the lines of g/y must always be a earth and cannot be indicated otherwise. 

 

[Andy™]

514.4.3 is for a PEN conductor. 514.4.2 does specifically state that g/y must only be used for a CPC, so they are talking BS. it does not comply which ever way you look at it

 

[Evans Electric]

That was my understanding .... if you opened a junction box or whatever you would expect the G/Yell to be the earth . 

 

[steptoe]

yes,

Ive always understood that a cpc [or G/Y covered conductor] can NEVER be used for any other purpose no matter how you wish to identify it.

 

[kerching]

I read that at the time it was published.

i kept quiet as I thought I had misread or missed something and did not wish to look more stupid than usual

 

[Nicky Tesla]

fine by me

 

[Adrian]

its fine with me to as long as its sleeved but not ok on t&e because the cpc is not insulated along its lengh 

 

[steptoe]

fine by me

its fine with me to as long as its sleeved but not ok on t&e because the cpc is not insulated along its lengh 

so, the regs specifically stating that a cpc must NEVER be used as a live is simply ignored then?

I do hope you put a good deviation on the sheet, and are well covered by insurance.

 

[Adrian]

when I said it was fine with me I don't do it but it is allowed in the regs on multicore cables but not singles or t&e

 

[Andy™]

when I said it was fine with me I don't do it but it is allowed in the regs on multicore cables but not singles or t&e

no, its not allowed. end of. ive even stated the reg which specifically says it cannot be used as anything other than a CPC

 

[batty]

Sounds like a couple of our members could get a job with British Gas. Have seen a few of there jobs on Central heating systems using flex and the green /yellow as a live conductor it just is not right yet they tell customers they can't have a switched socket to feed the heating system where's the logic in that.

 

[steptoe]

Cos.your not allowed a switched socket to feed a boiler .

 

[kme]

when I said it was fine with me I don't do it but it is allowed in the regs on multicore cables but not singles or t&e

its fine with me to as long as its sleeved but not ok on t&e because the cpc is not insulated along its lengh 

OK

Devil`s advocate here...

Where is the reg that says you can?

( btw, I always thought there was a reg that ALL accessories had to have a cpc; whether they needed it or not - but can`t FIND such a reg, so maybe I dreamed it). 

But I cannot find any reg to substantiate this claim of sleeving a cpc brown!!!!

If you know better - I`d appreciate you sharing it 

 

[Andy™]

( btw, I always thought there was a reg that ALL accessories had to have a cpc; whether they needed it or not - but can`t FIND such a reg, so maybe I dreamed it).

iirc there is, except for the final connection to a light (i.e pendant)

 

[Nicky Tesla]

you dreamt it

 

[Andy™]

you dreamt it

oh really? then go have a read of 411.3.1.1

 

[Nicky Tesla]

"exposed conductive parts shall be connected to a protective conductor"

there are not always exposed conductive parts.  A lamp holder  is part of a lighting circuit that requires a cpc on all the other parts of the circuit apart from the lamp holder.   No conductive parts on a smoke alarm...........no cpc required.    Where all the accessories on a circuit are class 2 no cpc required.

to be honest i think that reg needs updating. Singling a lamp holder out like that seems a bit out of date. 

 

[Jono Pashley]

Pretty sure all points of utilisation are required to have a cpc present eg switches ceiling roses etc