Shower switch warm

Got asked to have a look at a “warm shower switch”. Off I pop. This is what I found

1. Burnt terminations - smells like fish and it stinks
2. Damaged cabling by trying to force the 6mm back into the back box

Within the unit

1. Not earthed
2. Exposed neutral
3. Polarity reversed

The shower was still producing the hot water - R1 + R2 0.26 ohms
What I thought was going to be to be a re-termination - turned into something different.

• New switch from wholesaler
• Redo the damaged cables in the switch, exposed conductors - careless when screwing the faceplate back on I’ll bet.
• Extend neutral cable in the shower unit
• Reverse the reversal
• Connect the CPC which was never connected in the 1st place.

Unsure what to charge it took about 4 hours - any sensible ideas please

Markythesparky said:

Unsure what to charge it took about 4 hours - any sensible ideas please

Click to expand...

If you are running a business then the ONLY sensible charge is your hourly rate x the number of hours...

However, if you are a goodwill charity then just pick any low number so as not to offend anybody!

Side-Note:-
Once I have identified a problem that is clearly a bit more than just a 1hour call-out charge...
I will discuss with the customer the realistic charges, then either walk away or continue to fix the problem with a known agreed cost!

6mm in a shallow back box!! why do people make life difficult for themselves?

so much easier fitting a crabtree shower switch

truffle pig said:

6mm in a shallow back box!! why do people make life difficult for themselves?

Click to expand...

Probably, DIY / Builder / Bathroom fitter / Plumber, '*' who can do the electrics as its just three wires...
('*' delete as applicable).. at a guess?

Those switches are best avoided as are 35mm boxes

Another vote for the Crabtree

Loads of companies make 40/45A pull switches
However there is ONLY ONE shower pull switch CRABTREE end of!

Some folk may have a different opinion, however they are mistaken

My vote as well for Crabtree when it comes to shower pull cords.

If that is a wall mounted switch and it is only the size of a single gang faceplate, Then it needs replacing with a pattress box, and face plate that are equivalent to the width of a double gang box!!

Or if using ceiling cord-pull switches it needs to be a Crabtree..
Anything else is stupidity IMHO.

Never fitted a crab tree shower switch how are they better?

newfutile said:

Never fitted a crab tree shower switch how are they better?

Click to expand...

Good quality terminals and screws, well thought out location of terminals, good quality switch that has longevity.

newfutile said:

Never fitted a crab tree shower switch how are they better?

Click to expand...

A key difference is that all of the connections are part of the base that is fixed..

So once you have terminated your incoming & outgoing cables they do not have to be strained, bent, moved, formed while you are putting the cover on.

Hence the joints you have just made off are much more secure, compared to any type of switch where the connections are part of the face plate, that then has to be moved and pushed while fixing the faceplate onto the back box, with the risk of weakening the joints you have just made off.

Similar reason to avoiding single gang 40A+ cooker switches...
At least in a double gang box you have a bit of room to form and fold the cables as you put the face place back on.

Just a note that click scolmore do the same as the crabtree switch which is also the dogs danglies

Personally I'm happy with the standard type shower pull isolators in a lot of situations, generaaly to swap out to the crabtree style you have to mess around with where the cables come through the ceiling, so I don't often use them on maintenance work.

The situation I feel they come into their own is where the cables do not have any movement on them, say in a flat roof extension with no space in the void. However where there is scope to push slack up you can work on it 6 inches under the ceiling and bend the cores into sets that go straight into the terminals offer it up, pull it back down, nip it up, then screw it back. But DIYers seem to end up with length on the cores that they smush into the box and as they are going that the strands shift in the terminal and it loosens, and a lot of younger electricians end up with the unsheathed cores pushed into the ceiling void

This post has been merged with the original post of the same question

I’m trying to pin down what I would/could/should charge for the following - I’ve posted elsewhere about this job as well by the way. But I’ve just retrained and am struggling to get the art of quoting right.
I was asked to change a shower switch that was getting warm and there was a fishy smell on the landing it was situated.
- Do I charge just to exchange the switch and that’s it or do I do testing on the circuit?
- If it’s like for like replacement do I need to complete a MWEIC?
I took the faceplate off and cables were burnt and it took about half an hour to get another and come back to the job. PHOTO
Re-terminated and replaced the faceplate - should this be “job done”?
But…
I carried out the R1+R2 at the shower unit itself, and found no earth connected, reverse polarity and damaged cable from the switch. PHOTOS
- Do you charge extra for uncovering and rectifying the faults within the shower unit itself or is that part and parcel of the job.
My rate is £35/hr, plus mileage, plus parts and the testing & MWEIC. In all about 4 hours - I quoted £159. Customer was suggesting somewhere nearer £60-80

If I go to the job and just exchange the switch then £60 is fine - am I being reasonable in my quote because of the additional time and effort?
Guidance sought please

Additional observation/comment....
If you are working on a shower that requires a 10.0mm T&E...

I would rather peel off all of my skin... then try to heat shrink it back on with a hot air gun set to max...

Rather than attempt to terminate 2x 10.0mm T&E's into a single gang 47mm deep pattress box!

monkey5 said:

Just a note that click scolmore do the same as the crabtree switch which is also the dogs danglies

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that they did one...

But on a totally unscientific comparison, using Google and searching random suppliers...
CEF list the Scolmore @ £15.16 inc VAT..
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...ith-mechanical-on-off-neon-c-w-pattress-white

but the Crabtree is a tad cheaper @ £12.60 inc VAT..
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...itch-with-neon-and-mechanical-indicator-white

Which can be an obstacal when the customer is looking for a less than £9.00 solution..
https://www.screwfix.com/p/45a-1-way-pull-cord-switch-white-with-neon/9670d

Reposting a near identical question will not change any previous answers in my opinion...?
So I will repeat my answer as you have repeated the question..

I have merged the two threads.


If you are running a business then the ONLY sensible charge is your hourly rate x the number of hours...
However, if you are a goodwill charity then just pick any low number so as not to offend anybody!

Side-Note:-
Once I have identified a problem that is clearly a bit more than just a 1hour call-out charge...
I will discuss with the customer the realistic charges, then either walk away or continue to fix the problem with a known agreed cost!

Further side notes:-
If you have cocked-up and not discussed with the customer the real actual charges, then you may just have to take the hit and do the job at a loss.. Then learn NOT to do it next time!!

Any competent professional person should be able to identify if a job is a bit more involved that first expected.

Like-for-Like replacements do not require an MWC to be issued.. But i would still be doing all relevant tests to ensure my work is safe and compliant with BS7671.