House purchase - old electrics

Returning to this tread after a couple of house moves fell through. It's looking like they're now close to completing on another house.
For this one they've decided on living with us while they have a complete rewire and a fair bit of other necessary work. So house will have their furniture in but no one living there. No decorating needs preserving. (See attached Electrics photo).

So the question now is what to specify/ get quotes for.
I'm sure each electrician will have their own thoughts but my thinking: -

New CU with plenty of spare ways for future. (Possible future car charger, PV, garden office etc).
All RCBO and surge protection?
More final circuits are better than fewer?
Then how many sockets per room? Any rules of thumb?

Lighting circuits - how common is it now for LN+CPC to be looped to all switch positions rather than ceiling roses? I ask because my extension was done this way without any input from me and it's proved very useful for adding smart light switches. (Deeper back boxes would have been helpful but hey ho).

Any tips would be very useful. What else should they think about doing at this time, prior to redecorating? Outside lights? Stair lights? Fire/Smoke alarms?
What do your customers ask you back for that would have been better thought about from the outset?

Thread split: Different house, different re wire.

Chrisbee said:

Lighting circuits - how common is it now for LN+CPC to be looped to all switch positions rather than ceiling roses?

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depends on who's wiring it, but it is in the regs that a neutral should be taken to the switch

OK good, thank you.

Its not as black and white as that Its worded as "Consideration shall be given to the provision of the neutral conductor, at each switch position, to facilitate the installation of electronic switching devices" which is a bit of a wishy washy statement, if you want to a neutral at switches, then it would be wise to specify it

When I refurbished our retirement bungalow hallway I included an escape light, which is also over the services cabinet. It's a discreet little thing, only about 3cm diameter downlight, and the charge light acts as a night light. Probably not common in domestic installations, but I'm not sure why not.

Chrisbee said:

Any tips would be very useful. What else should they think about doing at this time, prior to redecorating? Outside lights? Stair lights? Fire/Smoke alarms?
What do your customers ask you back for that would have been better thought about from the outset

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Outside lights controlled by smart switch (That way on/off times can be set)
Have deep back boxes installed for the smart light switches they will also install
Stair lights (Too gimmicky, pain to fix/replace/obsolete next week)
Smoke alarms, insist on Aico.
Tell them to use RED 3 core and earth for the smoke alarms, and you want them connected to the Lighting circuit.
Have cat5/6 cables installed to each external corner. (You can add POE CCTV cameras later)
Have a 6mm SWA run in and terminate outside on back wall for the shed they have not yet got.
Get an alarm company involved to install cables (none of the radio rubbish)
Consumers unit to have all RCBO's
Coax from where tv is to go, to bedroom
Emergency light near Consumers unit
It will not be cheap, but it will be worth it in the long run

New CU All RCBO and surge protection? - YES

More final circuits are better than fewer? - YES (within reason)
I'd consider keeping separate supplies/circuits that:
(a) are more liable to tripping at some point - e.g. outside electrics; CH boiler & controls.
(b) would be inconvenient if something else tripped them - e.g. freezer, CH boiler & controls.

Then how many sockets per room? Any rules of thumb?
Sometimes people imagine the planned room layout and just request enough sockets for that.
Then in a year or two when it changes, they wish they'd had more installed, allow for that.
Better to have one or two too many (cost permitting) than not enough.

Things sometimes forgotten: Outside lighting, Outside power, Shed/Annex power, Loft power,
Smoke/heat alarms, Coax and/or Data (if applicable), RIng doorbell power.
Sometimes I've put in a cable ready for future use e.g. for a garden office.

Really useful answers, so swift too. Many thanks indeed.

Put the EV point in now even if it just terminates at a joint box.

Fleeting said:

Put the EV point in now even if it just terminates at a joint box.

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And remember the cat5e back to the mains/CU position to use one pair for the CT clamp (Or use EV ultra cable that has it inside the cable). Possibly add a separate cat5e back to broadband location if going for wired networking so the EVSE can be wired as well (note that not all support this - Zappi does - some are wifi only)

CU is under the stairs in a low cupboard. This backs onto the garage where EV cables could be run later. Points noted though.

While we're there, would there be any reason or advantage in moving the CU into the garage?

OP - why don’t you draft a spec, room by room and post it here for comments

Rule of thumb regarding sockets, at least 1 per corner of a room, 2 where a tv will be. Seriously consider running CAT from where the router is to where TVs and computers will be. Smoke and heat alarms. Outside lights, outside sockets.

Etc etc

Just remember adding things later is much more expensive , if they can be added

Oh and specify down lights with customer changeable bulbs

Chrisbee said:

CU is under the stairs in a low cupboard. This backs onto the garage where EV cables could be run later. Points noted though.

While we're there, would there be any reason or advantage in moving the CU into the garage?

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Up to you really. Is the garage accessible from inside the house

Murdoch said:

Up to you really. Is the garage accessible from inside the house

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Yes it is

Chrisbee said:

While we're there, would there be any reason or advantage in moving the CU into the garage?

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From a personal point of view...

I find it much easier working on a CU that is mounted at a reasonable height standing on the floor without ladders in somewhere like a garage / utility room / cellar etc..
Rather than squatting, kneeling, crouching down, in a dark under stairs cupboard with limited access!

From a users point of view... all you need to consider is how easy it to get to if/when a protective device trips the power off?

There was a trend for sticking the CU in the meter box cupboard on the external wall...
So if something trips off, on a dark winters night, in the rain, then you have got to go outside to reset it!
(Which I always thought was a stupid design).

Murdoch said:

OP - why don’t you draft a spec, room by room and post it here for comments

Rule of thumb regarding sockets, at least 1 per corner of a room, 2 where a tv will be. Seriously consider running CAT from where the router is to where TVs and computers will be. Smoke and heat alarms. Outside lights, outside sockets.

Etc etc

Just remember adding things later is much more expensive , if they can be added

Oh and specify down lights with customer changeable bulbs

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OK. I'll see what I can remember. Of course none of this is my decision to make, they may well have other ideas.

3 Bed semi.

Upstairs
Bedroom 1
Centre light, switch by door.
Double socket either side of every possible double bed location. So say qty=4.
(If there's only one bed position, consider reading lights and bedside switches a-la hotel room)

Bedroom 2 - as bedroom 1
Bedroom 3
Centre light, switch by door.
Double sockets qty=3

Bathroom
Centre light, pull switch or switch outside?
Airing cupboard contains hot water tank and CH valves etc. hopefully this wiring passes required testing and can be retained.

Stairs/landing.
Centre light upstairs switched from upstairs and downstairs.
Smoke alarm?

Downstairs

Hallway, (stairs off)
Centre light, (maintained?) switched by front door and kitchen door. Should this also have a switch upstairs? This would light the access to under stairs cupboard.

Lounge.
Centre light, switch by door.
Double sockets one in each corner plus more at TV position qty=6?

Dining room
Centre light, switch by door.
Double sockets one in each corner qty=4

Garden room
Centre light, switch by door.
Double sockets one in each corner qty=4

Kitchen - (note kitchen may be extended in future).
Centre light and over counter spotlights, switches by hall door and back door.
Double sockets qty = 6
Cooking - unknown gas or electric.

Utility - Fridge freezer, washing, dryer. Possibly home office.
Centre light, switch by door.
Double sockets qty=6

Garage
Centre light, switch by door.
Double sockets one in each corner qty=4

Also consider
Route for EV charger cable.
Route for garden office services.
Cabling for alarm system.
Cabling for security cameras.
Extra mood lighting.
Extra kitchen lighting options.
LAN connectivity.

switch outside bathroom is more reliable than a pull switch.

General rule is a double socket in every corner, at least two double sockets behind TV, and lots of sockets in kitchen.

USB charging sockets useful in kitchen and beside beds for phone charging.

Utility is probably the only place you need a 32A ring circuit, (could be wired in 4mm as a radial cct) 20A radials do everything else

Single socket in hallway upstairs and downstairs for hoover.

Socket for wifi router wherever that ends up.

Separate cct for central heating boiler - nothing worse than losing heating midwinter due to a fault on a shared cct, also worth considering freezer on separate cct.

Great points again thanks.

May as well put hoover sockets where you suggest anyway, but they tend to be rechargeable these days. So - sockets where they might be stored too, for charging.

Good idea about freezer being separated. That could be useful in future for PV/Battery backup purposes. Fridge too.

Kitchen - point for extractor? Any points below worktop for dishwasher, gas hob ignition, other white goods? Any under cabinet lighting?

Chrisbee said:

Great points again thanks.

May as well put hoover sockets where you suggest anyway, but they tend to be rechargeable these days. So - sockets where they might be stored too, for charging.

Good idea about freezer being separated. That could be useful in future for PV/Battery backup purposes. Fridge too.

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So finalise all these points and get sparks to quote for exactly what you want - then you'll be able to compare prices

Not sure where in the UK you are so pricing could vary A LOT