Extractor fan install is noifiable, plus more!!

HappyHippyDad · Oct 16, 2024

Has anyone seen the eFIXX video clip about the new Part F regulations regarding ventilation?

Installing a fan is now notifiable, plus you have to go on a course, plus you have to be assessed on this each year, on top of your normal assessment, costing a few hundred pounds.

Am I understanding this all correctly? Bloody crazy.

https://www.google.com/search?q=electricians+furious+over&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=992c006e90961474&sxsrf=ADLYWILkj2tjg4YJVXjYfT8YuvOVBPrkPw:1729110049731&ei=ISAQZ5eLLI6L9u8PicKv2QU&oq=electricians+furious+over&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhllbGVjdHJpY2lhbnMgZnVyaW91cyBvdmVyMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAFIg39QzwZYgXlwAngBkAEAmAGJBKABiiuqAQo1LjI5LjQtMS4xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIcoALxHqgCD8ICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAgQQIxgnwgILEAAYgAQYkQIYigXCAgoQABiABBgUGIcCwgIFEAAYgATCAgcQIxgnGOoCwgINEC4Y0QMYxwEYJxjqAsICBxAuGCcY6gLCAgoQIxiABBgnGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICEBAuGIAEGEMYxwEYigUYrwHCAggQABiABBixA8ICCxAuGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIOEAAYgAQYkQIYyQMYigXCAgsQABiABBiSAxiKBcICCxAAGIAEGLEDGMkDwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAg4QABiABBixAxiDARjJA8ICBhAAGBYYHsICCBAAGBYYChgewgIFECEYnwXCAgcQIRigARgKmAMUiAYBkAYIkgcINC4yMy40LTGgB4K5AQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

SPECIAL LOCATION · Oct 16, 2024

erm... interesting link...

But on the governments approved document listing the valid part F Ventilation document is still the one from 15 June 2022.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/approved-documents

Which is the list I would be referencing regarding any building regulations compliance guidance.

Where part F Volume 1 Applies to dwellings..
With free PDF downloads are available if you have any doubts about what you need to do to comply with building regs
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61deba42d3bf7f054fcc243d/ADF1.pdf

Richard-the-Ninth · Oct 16, 2024

Too slow

, see #4 click me (4 down from your post)

HappyHippyDad · Oct 17, 2024

Richard-the-Ninth said:
Too slow , see #4 click me (4 down from your post)

Haha...
I bet that's where I subconsciously remembered it from... or else I just ignored your post, sorry Richard

.

Still a scary video clip

kerching · Oct 17, 2024

FFS yet another 'Only Fans' site!

mort2376 · Oct 17, 2024

And thats why I wont be installing Fans anymore. Im not paying for a course for something I only fit 3 or 4 times a year and very rarely from new. Its normally replacement units that have failed.

Building control never inspect these things, Tenants in rental properties turn them off because they are too noisy. Nope just something else now added to my I dont install list. Pretty soon Ill only be installing replacement accessory fronts

ExArmy · Oct 19, 2024

I'm still confused by this, Efixx do a video about saying very vaguely that it's all notifiable, but I have tried to find the exact wording in Parf F but I can't.
also, it's not a new thing, Part F updated in 2021 and enforced as of 2022. why are we only hearing about it now? I don't remember my NAPIT assessor asking me if I need to notify fan installs on my last visit, you'd think the schemes would have jumped on it to get an extra subscription fee out of us

kerching · Oct 19, 2024

Quote

why are we only hearing about it now?

Same reason we are only hearing about bidirectional RCDs now ( surely some overpaid wazzock at the IEt should have realised this years ago?). The more cynical would say it’s another revenue stream

ExArmy · Oct 20, 2024

Just had a look through the NAPIT webinars , I notice a building regs one they did in August 2023, the section on part F is around 20 mins into it but is pretty basic, just before 23 minutes they answer the question of how do you notify a fan install to BC and in summary they just say "not really needed for single bathroom fans but will be required for more complicated systems"

HappyHippyDad · Oct 20, 2024

Basically, I'm going to ignore it for now.
If I get pulled up on it with a building inspector, or on an assessment, I'll make a decision then if it's worth still fitting them.

UNG · Oct 20, 2024

How long can this endless stream of regulation, courses and expiring certs go on before it drives people away from the industry because too many organisations believe they are entitled to an ever increasing slice of your time and profits

binky · Oct 20, 2024

UNG said:
How long can this endless stream of regulation, courses and expiring certs go on before it drives people away from the industry because too many organisations believe they are entitled to an ever increasing slice of your time and profits

I can understand some form if certification for new build passive houses, but never a bathroom fan. The trouble with all the registration bodies is they are all quangos. As such they are businesses, and profit is their motivation

ExArmy · Oct 23, 2024

I sent Envirovent a message about their training course last week when I watched the Efixx video, it's taken until today to get a reply about the course and they are fully booked till May. they've also bumped the price up by £50

"The NIC EIC course is run from our training facility based in Harrogate, the cost of the course is £250 +VAT person, lunch and parking are provided free of charge.
Please see list of dates below;

27th – 28th January 2025 - FULLY BOOKED
24th – 25th February 2025 – FULLY BOOKED
10th – 11th March 2025 – FULLY BOOKED
7th – 8th April 2025 – FULLY BOOKED
28th – 29th April 2025 – FULLY BOOKED
19th – 20th May 2025
2nd – 3rd June 2025 – FULLY BOOKED
16th – 17th June 2025
7th – 8th July 2025
21st – 22nd July 2025
11th – 12th August 2025
18th -19th August 2025
15th – 16th September 2025
29th – 30th September 2025
13th – 14th October 2025
27th – 28th October 2025
10th – 11th November 2025
8th – 9th December 2025"

UNG · Oct 23, 2024

ExArmy said:
I sent Envirovent a message about their training course last week when I watched the Efixx video, it's taken until today to get a reply about the course and they are fully booked till May. they've also bumped the price up by £50

"The NIC EIC course is run from our training facility based in Harrogate, the cost of the course is £250 +VAT person, lunch and parking are provided free of charge.

At £250 + VAT the free lunch and parking is very generous of them

Murdoch · Oct 23, 2024

And people wonder why so my installations are carp these days. Over regulation, nobody checking on standards and the pointless CPS,s taking our money

Thankfully none of this nonsense for me

SPECIAL LOCATION · Oct 23, 2024

Well as I see it..

Any more expensive time wasting courses are simply not worth the hassle for a sole trader doing occasional extractor fans...

So for any new builds / major extension works involving building control, I would probably just pass the buck onto the builder to get any ventilation certification done...

e.g. I would supply any cables required to the fan position.. (and / or isolator / fused spur).. Assist the builder with connecting the wires to verify they are electrically safe..
But leave the builder to specify and install what fan(s) duct sizes etc.. are required.

So the builder can fix the fan and the ducts and outlet vent, pull my dead cable poking through into the fan for the electrical terminations, for me to do once he/she has fitted the fan...

And note on any electrical certificates that I issue... "Install and testing of wiring to fan position 'XYZ', All applicable ventilation, extraction rate certification, notification etc verified by 'Mr Bob-The-Builder Ltd'"

Buck-passed... Not my problem.. Not my training course!!

And for any minor works / maintenance replacements, where building control are not involved.. Then its possible that any certificates issued may not mention any extractor fan works!

ExArmy · Oct 24, 2024

I think there is something that needs to be done about the state of extractor fans as there are some terrible installs out there and it's clear that it's never really been taught properly, but this has been done terribly. I wouldn't mind paying £250 for a course on it's own, but to have to buy an anemometer kit for £300 and have to calibrate the thing every year, pay another subscription fee to and have another yearly visit and have to complete paperwork every time I install one is just ridiculous.

binky · Oct 24, 2024

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
Well as I see it..

Any more expensive time wasting courses are simply not worth the hassle for a sole trader doing occasional extractor fans...

So for any new builds / major extension works involving building control, I would probably just pass the buck onto the builder to get any ventilation certification done...

e.g. I would supply any cables required to the fan position.. (and / or isolator / fused spur).. Assist the builder with connecting the wires to verify they are electrically safe..
But leave the builder to specify and install what fan(s) duct sizes etc.. are required.

So the builder can fix the fan and the ducts and outlet vent, pull my dead cable poking through into the fan for the electrical terminations, for me to do once he/she has fitted the fan...

And note on any electrical certificates that I issue... "Install and testing of wiring to fan position 'XYZ', All applicable ventilation, extraction rate certification, notification etc verified by 'Mr Bob-The-Builder Ltd'"

Buck-passed... Not my problem.. Not my training course!!

And for any minor works / maintenance replacements, where building control are not involved.. Then its possible that any certificates issued may not mention any extractor fan works!

Or pass the buck onto the fan supplier, which is inflationary as their costs will go on the price of the products.

UNG · Oct 24, 2024

ExArmy said:
I think there is something that needs to be done about the state of extractor fans as there are some terrible installs out there and it's clear that it's never really been taught properly, but this has been done terribly.

But doesn't that sum up a lot of the electrical industries failings in many aspects of the trade today and for that matter the last 2 or 3 decades

ExArmy said:
I wouldn't mind paying £250 for a course on it's own, but to have to buy an anemometer kit for £300 and have to calibrate the thing every year, pay another subscription fee to and have another yearly visit and have to complete paperwork every time I install one is just ridiculous.

But that is before you then factor in the loss of earnings, the travel costs, any accomodation that may be needed to attend the course and then the certificate only lasts 5 years before the cycle starts again

Any course can easily cost many times more than the actual course cost and sometimes all the costs may never be fully recovered for the business to actually see a turnover and profit benefit which is totally overlooked by the legislators

Given the current push with Damp & Mould Action and Awareness Week next week it is understandable that someone somewhere will want to make something from it but the current press about Awab's law seems to want to place the blame firmly on the landlord and protect tenant's from their ignorance of simply opening a window to let some air circulate. Moving on how about clamping down on these TV DIY experts who seem to advocate blocking up every little draught with a can of expanding foam which can prevent any natural and forced ventilation from doing it's work

Sparksfly · Oct 24, 2024

Meanwhile.......

On investigating an Axial ceiling fan yesterday, dust/skin falling into the bath.....Fan is okay.
Found 6m+ of flexi duct in t'loft had the fan.... blowing like an asthmatic ant against a gentle breeze....

Fear not my friends......I will return.......with centrifugal force, to suck every ounce of remaining air in that tiny space....

I will Test, issue a Minor works and add, in the comments section............ how many squares of toilet paper it can now hold on its grille compared to the previous quarter sheet.

Calibration of said sheets are followed with a simple wet finger....

......and.........No one needs know........

Meanwhile....

The person is now enjoying more visibility, the gentle

steaming shower is soaking every last inch of skin.

Alas.........

Hovering, like a heavy cloud against the gravitational pull and upward pull...is a spinning mop of hair levitating between Newtons 3rd LAW (Action & Reaction) and 2nd LAW (Acceleration).........

However.........
Once the fan is off, said person is bending to retrieve the soaked mop...... which now resembles a dishevelled long haired feline flattened by a dustbin truck.
All is quiet.....
Which brings us to Newtons 1st LAW (Law of INERTIA)...I'm done now... too tired to fill another form to the LABC...et all.....
So thank you Newton.......we Celebrate you.

Extractor fan install is noifiable, plus more!!

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