Would this be a C3 on next EICR

Dave Williams · 2025-03-03T18:17:21+0000

Hi all,
I have a rental flat with two consumer units as it has eco 7 for storage heaters, etc. The main CU was upgraded in March 2021. The EIC for this states: "Off peak consumer unit has no RCD protection which met the regulations at time of installation and would be classed as a C3 on an EICR which is satisfactory". All circuits were tested.
Can I expect this to still be the case when it is inspected for the EIRC when it is next due, (5 yrs was recommended on the EIC), or has anything changed in the regs to require this to be upgraded?
Thanks.

NozSpark · 2025-03-03T21:39:32+0000

It’d only be a C2 if one of the circuits supplies a heater in the bathroom, or if the supply is TT,,,,, but only a C3 if supplying a heater anywhere else

SPECIAL LOCATION · 2025-03-03T22:17:16+0000

There is an element of individual interpretation when assessing immediate or potential risks and dangers for coding onto an Electrical Installation Condition Report, EICR, following periodic inspection and testing of a property..

So its not uncommon to find that the same observation may be given different codes by different electricians!!

And unfortunately there a far too many more recently qualified electricians, who may have an inspection & testing qualification..
But little or no historic experience or knowledge of previous editions of BS7671 wiring regulations...
So they can sometimes be a bit over zealous and trigger happy with coding their observations!!!

However to try and establish some standardisation of common observations there is a free download PDF "best practice guide" available from the Electrical Safety First website..
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/tmpm33hr/best_practice-guide-4_issue_7-2.pdf

If you download a copy then scroll down to page 22 there are various examples of observations relating to "Absence of RCD protection"... The guide suggest these are "C3" codes.

Other guides are also available https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/professional-resources/best-practice-guides/
including one relating to electrical safety in private rented accomodation..
which may also be a useful read?

Hope that helps.

And welcome to the forum.

Murdoch · 2025-03-04T08:09:46+0000

Dave Williams · 2025-03-04T08:49:31+0000

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
There is an element of individual interpretation when assessing immediate or potential risks and dangers for coding onto an Electrical Installation Condition Report, EICR, following periodic inspection and testing of a property..

So its not uncommon to find that the same observation may be given different codes by different electricians!!

And unfortunately there a far too many more recently qualified electricians, who may have an inspection & testing qualification..
But little or no historic experience or knowledge of previous editions of BS7671 wiring regulations...
So they can sometimes be a bit over zealous and trigger happy with coding their observations!!!

However to try and establish some standardisation of common observations there is a free download PDF "best practice guide" available from the Electrical Safety First website..
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/tmpm33hr/best_practice-guide-4_issue_7-2.pdf

If you download a copy then scroll down to page 22 there are various examples of observations relating to "Absence of RCD protection"... The guide suggest these are "C3" codes.

Other guides are also available https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/professional-resources/best-practice-guides/
including one relating to electrical safety in private rented accomodation..
which may also be a useful read?

Hope that helps.

And welcome to the forum.

Thank you for your very helpful reply. I will certainly have a read of these. Cheers.

Murdoch · 2025-03-04T09:31:32+0000

Sadly far TOO MANY sparks think that installations need to comply with the 18th edition and clearly don’t understand what the C3 is for

Dave Williams · 2025-03-04T10:16:12+0000

Murdoch said:
Sadly far TOO MANY sparks think that installations need to comply with the 18th edition and clearly don’t understand what the C3 is for

Yes, I had this with another EICR. Cooker point behind hob. I was able to speak to NICEIC helpline, before they closed this to non members, and they advised me to remind electrician that the latest regs were not retrospective for everything, and that it was satisfactory. Fortunately, the electrician accepted this. It came up again last year with a different tester and I had to argue it again. They capitulated, but I agreed to change the cooker switch/ plug socket to just a switch, which is sensible of course, except it just leaves one double socket in the tiny kitchen, which is above the sink drainer.

Murdoch · 2025-03-04T10:20:32+0000

So now you could end up with a C2 for insufficient sockets in the kitchen. Make sure the tenants aren’t using extension leads in the kitchen

Dave Williams · 2025-03-04T12:25:46+0000

Hi Murdoch, is there a regulation stating what is a sufficient number of sockets? And if there's nowhere else to add them that does not meet current regs, as too close to hob or sink, then what? As I said the, kitchen is tiny. The only other sockets are below the worktop, for fridge, and possibly cooker or hob. ( Can't remember if either are plugged in?)
As for making sure the tenants don't use an extension, that's not really possible. I can only advise them.

Murdoch · 2025-03-04T13:02:07+0000

There isn’t an electrical reg for this - but IIRC there are guidance numbers in the NHBC documents - but what this doesn’t do is attribute any sizes to the rooms which is pure nonsense

Dave Williams · 2025-03-04T13:53:44+0000

I have briefly tried to find info on this and that is basically what I found. There was no mention of it by the tester anyway, or the previous one when it had just a total of 3 sockets above the worktop.
I don't think there's anywhere that an additional socket might be added. Any ideas?

binky · 2025-03-04T14:23:52+0000

Dave Williams said:
I have briefly tried to find info on this and that is basically what I found. There was no mention of it by the tester anyway, or the previous one when it had just a total of 3 sockets above the worktop.
I don't think there's anywhere that an additional socket might be added. Any ideas?

That's the sort of nonsense kitchen fitters and diyers do.

binky · 2025-03-04T14:29:09+0000

Dave Williams said:
Yes, I had this with another EICR. Cooker point behind hob. I was able to speak to NICEIC helpline, before they closed this to non members, and they advised me to remind electrician that the latest regs were not retrospective for everything, and that it was satisfactory. Fortunately, the electrician accepted this. It came up again last year with a different tester and I had to argue it again. They capitulated, but I agreed to change the cooker switch/ plug socket to just a switch, which is sensible of course, except it just leaves one double socket in the tiny kitchen, which is above the sink drainer.

It's a bit of an odd situation, we inspect to current regs, but should make allowances for installations that were correct at time of installation.

Rentals are slightly different, in that on my opinion they should at least upto 16th edition because Tennant's can be a brick short of a full load, or several bricks

. Being mote up to date also enhances protection if you investment property.

binky · 2025-03-04T14:29:50+0000

Murdoch said:
So now you could end up with a C2 for insufficient sockets in the kitchen. Make sure the tenants aren’t using extension leads in the kitchen

So true

Dave Williams · 2025-03-04T14:32:48+0000

It was a new build studio flat in the 80's, I suppose it met the regs then. What else could they have done, given the limited space? The only thing I can think of changing is to have a two ring hob, but that doesn't help much.

Dave Williams · 2025-03-04T14:42:29+0000

binky said:
It's a bit of an odd situation, we inspect to current regs, but should make allowances for installations that were correct at time of installation.

Rentals are slightly different, in that on my opinion they should at least upto 16th edition because Tennant's can be a brick short of a full load, or several bricks . Being mote up to date also enhances protection if you investment property.

Tenants certainly can be, but that applies equally to home owners and they don't have to have any inspections or certificates.

Before I changed the cooker switch/socket, a tenant called me to say the electrics had gone off. I found a toaster plugged into it, sitting on the hob. The bottom of it had melted.

I'm sure you've all seen far worse in your jobs.

Would this be a C3 on next EICR

Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:

Dave Williams

Member

NozSpark

Seaman stains™

SPECIAL LOCATION

Trailer Boy - Electrician.

Murdoch

MEMBER

Dave Williams

Member

Murdoch

MEMBER

Dave Williams

Member

Murdoch

MEMBER

Dave Williams

Member

Murdoch

MEMBER

Dave Williams

Member

Attachments

binky

retired and loving it!

binky

retired and loving it!

binky

retired and loving it!

Dave Williams

Member

Dave Williams

Member

Similar threads

Latest posts