16th or 17th

[MARTISPARKY]

ok here is one for you all...

A large rewire in central london, 80% complete,client gets rid of original electrical contractors and gets me in to complete.

second fixing, identifying of cables,some completion of circuits,termination and completion of consumer units and full inspection and test to be carried out..

so what's the problem i hear you say, well...

the original contractors started the project in 2007, in the 16th edition, i am now taking over in the 17th where rcd's are mandatory and earthing requirements have changed. Do i complete the installation to the 16th or do i now comply to the 17th? meaning installing rcd's/rcbo's and upgrade main and supplementary and any other parts of the installation that do not comply to the 17th edition???

i phoned the nic and they told me to adhere to the 17th but yet when i e-mail the E.C.A and the H.S.E. the say it was designed in the 16th and should be completed to the 16th...

please help

 

[Andy™]

if it was started before 17th, it can be completed to 16th. although it may be a little long if its only a house or something

 

[NozSpark]

I guess you've already told them that the regs have changed since the job was started??

If so tell them that you can finish it to the 16th regs, but that you would strongly advise that they should have RCD/RCOB protection for every circuit.... word it like it's a safety issue and that if it was done this way now that it should be future proof for any additions that they might want in the future..

I didn't think that main earthing and protective bonding had changed since 16th!!

 

[Evans Electric]

This revolves round whether the client will pay the extra costs , if not, then for me its the 16th. Last year the 16th was the bees knees, the dog's danglies . Mothing changed except some words on a bit of paper.

 

[MARTISPARKY]

i told the architect that i thought it would have to be updated, but i would check with the powers that be, he says that it wouldn't have to be and i could continue to the 16th, i told him that i would highly recommend installing rcbo's.

main bonding Earths have been run in 6mm, should be 10mm

 

[Evans Electric]

They have been 10 mm for 1000years now.

 

[MARTISPARKY]

really.. i new lithuania was discovered in 1009 ad, didn't know they had electricity back then!!! maybe someone should have told the Lithuania's the correct size of earth cable use on this project!!!

 

[spinlondon]

The Olympic site is being installed to the 16th, as it was designed to the 16th.

 

[Lee321]

They have been 10 mm for 1000years now.

thats what made me laff

 

[Lee321]

The Olympic site is being installed to the 16th, as it was designed to the 16th.

i doubt there would be any changes needed either way

 

[binky]

Ther was a clause that said projects started prior to 17th can be completed accordingly, even if it is a bit overdue. But as previously stated bonding has been 10mm for years, so previous contractors have done it wrong anyway - would seriously check everything else before continuing.

I picked up a job early this year that had co-ax, cat5e and telephone cables run alongside mains cables - bleeding nightmare.

 

[spinlondon]

i doubt there would be any changes needed either way

Well if installed to the 17th, all the accomodation units would require RCD protection on sockets. Any wiring run in metal stud walls would also require RCD protection. There may be no requirement for suplementary bonding in special locations.

 

[Lee321]

Well if installed to the 17th, all the accomodation units would require RCD protection on sockets. Any wiring run in metal stud walls would also require RCD protection. There may be no requirement for suplementary bonding in special locations.

i'd disagree. they are a commercial unit.

i.e you'd be a paying guest and guest's don't go hanging picture frames.

the sockets could not reasonably but thought to ever supply equipment outside the ez. i'e guests won't be using lawn mowers cutting the grass !

?

 

[Andy™]

but a guest is still not a skilled or instructed person, so the sockets will still need RCD'd

 

[spinlondon]

i'd disagree. they are a commercial unit. i.e you'd be a paying guest and guest's don't go hanging picture frames.

the sockets could not reasonably but thought to ever supply equipment outside the ez. i'e guests won't be using lawn mowers cutting the grass !

?

The accomodation units are not for paying guests, but are to house atheletes and officials etc. with the intention of turning them into residential units after the games.

The Regulations call for socket outlets rated up to 20A that are to be used by ordinary persons to be protected by RCD. The exception relates to the use by skilled or instructed persons.

Being a paying guest would not mean that you are either skilled or instructed.

The regulation about protecting wiring that is contained within metal stud walls, applies to all installations, whether comercial or residential.

The fact that the sockets can or can not be used to power equipment outside is irrelevant.

 

[Lee321]

but a guest is still not a skilled or instructed person, so the sockets will still need RCD'd

does that rule specifically apply to sockets andy? i was under the impression this specifically is to do with cable damage ie. by nails

so all buried circuits.

yeah of course it is just need to juggle where rcd is protecting from direct contact in a place where only skilled and instructed are.

 

[spinlondon]

does that rule specifically apply to sockets andy? i was under the impression this specifically is to do with cable damage ie. by nailsso all buried circuits

There are a number of regulations relating to RCDs.

One relates to socket outlets that are rated up to 20A. Another relates to wiring that is buried in a wall at less than 50mm. The exceptions are if the sockets are to be used by skilled or instructed persons, and for the first one sockets that are for a specific purpose and are labeled as such.

However the regulation about wiring in walls containing metal; applies without exception, as do the regulations about protecting circuits in a special location and sockets that could be used to power equipment outside.

 

[Lee321]

There are a number of regulations relating to RCDs.One relates to socket outlets that are rated up to 20A. Another relates to wiring that is buried in a wall at less than 50mm. The exceptions are if the sockets are to be used by skilled or instructed persons, and for the first one sockets that are for a specific purpose and are labeled as such.

However the regulation about wiring in walls containing metal; applies without exception, as do the regulations about protecting circuits in a special location and sockets that could be used to power equipment outside.

yeah thats the one