17th ed exam

[Evans Electric]

Another one says:- A supply not MIMS or busbar feeding a Paper Mill must be provided with an RCD not exceeding

30

300

500

150

The question makes no sense to me , I presume MIMS means Mineral Insulated Cable ,

who the hell would fit an RCD to a Busbar that feeds a Paper Mill ?

Unless I'm past it , a Paper Mill is a place that mashes up trees or waste paper and makes paper , where does an RCD come into it?

 

[batty]

I looked at the downloads (thanks) but some of the questions seemed wrong to me ,which is worrying. Ommission for circuit protection against overload may not be given to which of the following:-

Fire Alarms

Control circuits for fire extinguishinhg equipment

Exiter circuits for rotating machines

Supply circuit for lifting magnets.

I've never read about not having overload protection on any circuit although I have wired a pump to power a sprinkler system where the insurers told us to remove overload protection ie; HRC fuses and connect direct to the busbar system , we refused and told them to come and do it themselves as I could'nt find any reference to it.

You just have to read the question deke it must be fire alarm as battery back up will take over if circuit breaker fails.

 

[sparkytim]

Hi again

BRB Pg 74 433.3

We all commonly omit overload protection.

i.e. 0.75 flex pendant drop on a 16 Amp lighting cct.

Thats 433.3.1 (ii)

Note its OVERLOAD protection NOT FAULT protection.

 

[batty]

Another one says:- A supply not MIMS or busbar feeding a Paper Mill must be provided with an RCD not exceeding 30

300

500

150

The question makes no sense to me , I presume MIMS means Mineral Insulated Cable ,

who the hell would fit an RCD to a Busbar that feeds a Paper Mill ?

Unless I'm past it , a Paper Mill is a place that mashes up trees or waste paper and makes paper , where does an RCD come into it?

I would have to look at book but I think from memory its 300mA generally 500mA are not used in this country.

 

[Evans Electric]

Hi Voltimax , what are all these numbers you mention 2381....2380...2391 All I ever knew were C&G A,B or C

 

[sparkytim]

Another one says:- A supply not MIMS or busbar feeding a Paper Mill must be provided with an RCD not exceeding 30

300

500

150

The question makes no sense to me , I presume MIMS means Mineral Insulated Cable ,

who the hell would fit an RCD to a Busbar that feeds a Paper Mill ?

Unless I'm past it , a Paper Mill is a place that mashes up trees or waste paper and makes paper , where does an RCD come into it?

This one just tests knowledge on Chap 42 Protection against THERMAL EFFECTS

Pg 68 422.3.9

Its just about getting the clues - Paper Mill - Whats special? Fire risk, Stored materials.

The 3 day course will help to find your way around the BRB, I would recommend it not just taking the exam.

 

[Evans Electric]

I would have to look at book but I think from memory its 300mA generally 500mA are not used in this country.

You have lost me Batts , why do you want an RCD on the supply to a Paper Mill , what is it about a Paper Mill that calls for an RCD . I visualise a Paper Mill with possibly a 500 A TP supply, why would you install an RCD .

What book are you thinking of? RCDs are to protect portable equip.outdoors.

The flush wiring on domestic work.

Showers .

Site sockets on 230v

 

[Evans Electric]

I think I'd best chuck it in .

 

[kme]

I looked at the downloads (thanks) but some of the questions seemed wrong to me ,which is worrying. Ommission for circuit protection against overload may not be given to which of the following:-

Fire Alarms

Control circuits for fire extinguishinhg equipment

Exiter circuits for rotating machines

Supply circuit for lifting magnets.

I've never read about not having overload protection on any circuit although I have wired a pump to power a sprinkler system where the insurers told us to remove overload protection ie; HRC fuses and connect direct to the busbar system , we refused and told them to come and do it themselves as I could'nt find any reference to it.

You just have to read the question deke it must be fire alarm as battery back up will take over if circuit breaker fails.

Agree. It would HAVE to be fire alarm, as none of the other three supplies come under 7671.

 

[Ian Speirs]

Whilst doing the 2391 course at my local college, i asked my tutor how much the 17th edition exam was to resit if you fail it the first time, he said

 

[Evans Electric]

This one just tests knowledge on Cap 42 Protection against THERMAL EFFECTSPg 68 422.3.9

Its just about getting the clues - Paper Mill - Whats special? Fire risk, Stored materials.

The 3 day course will help to find your way around the BRB, I would recommend it not just taking the exam.

I have been woking at printing works for years , places are full of paper , not an RCD in sight . The one I was at on Friday , for instance, in relation to this question ,would need a 300A Triple pole RCD at what, 500mA with 185mm cables connected to it .

I'm not with this at all. How does this giant RCD prevent a fire from starting ? As I said in OP its been a long and winding road since 1966 .

 

[kme]

I have been woking at printing works for years , places are full of paper , not an RCD in sight . The one I was at on Friday , for instance, in relation to this question ,would need a 300A Triple pole RCD at what, 500mA with 185mm cables connected to it . I'm not with this at all. How does this giant RCD prevent a fire from starting ? As I said in OP its been a long and winding road since 1966 .

Right. You`d need one of these........

http://www.blakley.co.uk/pdfs/TemPowerPDFs/TMPDS29_COMBINED_CTC_RCD_SIA_ISIA.pdf

 

[Lee321]

sounds like you need the course ROTFWL

the rcd for a paper mill is totally important app 5 BE2

422.3.9 (i)

 

[Lee321]

You just have to read the question deke it must be fire alarm as battery back up will take over if circuit breaker fails.

Agree. It would HAVE to be fire alarm, as none of the other three supplies come under 7671.

you can omit overload protection for all of those listed

433.3.3

(i,ii,iv,v)

what a bum question

is that exactly how the question appears deke

 

[Evans Electric]

you can omit overload protection for all of those listed433.3.3

(i,ii,iv,v)

what a bum question

is that exactly how the question appears deke

Yes ,I copied it verbatim

It is a bum question , what factory runs through a giant RCD .

 

[JUD]

guys, I was bricking myself last year when I had to do it,done my 2391 a good few years ago, so hadnt done an exam for a long time,

boy was I dumbfounded when I found out you are ALLOWED the BRB in the exam with you, and basically the OSG and I had a little UNITE guide with me as well,

some others had GN3 too.

it really has to be one of the easiest exams ever,

if you know how to use an index, and a contents page you will walk it.

its all about knowing where to look in the book(contents or index), and knowing the keyword you are looking for, eg, "current capacity" rather than "cable rating" sort of thing.

HTH,

ps, I think my 3day course and exam was about

 

[paul b b]

Another good tip that everyone on the course I was on used.You can buy little sticky tabs from WH Smith that you stick to the pages and write on to mark out all the important sections/pages of the book (Max Zs tables, Cable de-rating, Special locations etc.)

It can save a lot of time spent flicking backwards and forwards to the index in the exam.

just check with them that you can do this, when i did mine you were not allowed.

 

[Voltimax]

Hi Voltimax , what are all these numbers you mention 2381....2380...2391 All I ever knew were C&G A,B or C

Good morning Deke, all those numbers should have C&G in front of them.

C&G 2380 = 16th edition (2000)

C&G 2381 = 16th edition (2007)

C&G 2382 = 17th edition (2008)

C&G 2391 = Testing & Inspection

You think you have it bad? When my 2391 qualification is 5 years old, NAPIT expect me to take it again if I want to carry on doing PIR's!

Trust me, you'll be fine. I'd sit the course if you're worried by the end of it you'll be feeling fine. All those questions you're worried about will be explained. Like I said, enjoy it

 

[Sidewinder]

Another one says:- A supply not MIMS or busbar feeding a Paper Mill must be provided with an RCD not exceeding 30

300

500

150

The question makes no sense to me , I presume MIMS means Mineral Insulated Cable ,

who the hell would fit an RCD to a Busbar that feeds a Paper Mill ?

Unless I'm past it , a Paper Mill is a place that mashes up trees or waste paper and makes paper , where does an RCD come into it?

Deke,

This goes back at least as far as the Blue 16th ed.

At this time it was: enhanced risk of fire due to the nature of processed and or stored materials. Can't remember the exact section now though.

This has now been replaced by external influence BE2 primarily in the brb.

This requires protection of such circuits by 300mA RCD in such environments. Yes I realise that this may be an issue with large incomers, but, these devices only need to be on the outputs from busbar systems, so if you have a big incomer into bus bar chambers then you could fit add on RCD's to the outgoing MCB's (if used) such as MG Vigi units, or you could use them as the main switch on the distribution boards. MG do quite large ones IIRC.

HTH

 

[paul b b]

sounds a bit stupid volt, but why would they want yo to take it again when you do it every day? your good enough yesterday but not to day lol