2 meters in house

[4cres]

I rent a house out and the tenant contacted me to say he had a large electric bill recently (which he pays).

I got a copy of his bill and the L meter (standard was relatively ok but he says hi) and the D (off peak) was zero.

I have 2 meters in the house and electricity is supplied from SSE on a Standard and Restricted hours B tariff.

I am lost as to how the 2 meters work and do they switch over at a certain time to record usage??

I got ceramic core storage heaters fitted a good few years ago (4-5 years)and before that had old style blow heating.

Can anyone advise me? Thanks 

 

[Murdoch]

Does the tenant have copies of previous bills?

How are the storage heaters "controlled" - local timers or separate fuseboard - and do they work?

 

[ProDave]

Separate meters for peak and off peak is a very old system, sometimes called "white meter"  Unlike the more modern Economy 7, it is only the storage heating that gets the cheap rate at night, the rest of the house pays the peak rate all the time.

The way it normally works is the supplier will have installed a time switch so the off peak supply only comes on at night.

I suspect when your big central blown air system was removed and the individual storage heaters were installed, they were wired wrong so they are not connected to the off peak meter.

As already suggested, check previous bills to see if this is the case or not.

Oh and a VERY important question, is this high bill an estimate or based on proper actual readings?

 

[4cres]

Separate meters for peak and off peak is a very old system, sometimes called "white meter"  Unlike the more modern Economy 7, it is only the storage heating that gets the cheap rate at night, the rest of the house pays the peak rate all the time.

The way it normally works is the supplier will have installed a time switch so the off peak supply only comes on at night.

I suspect when your big central blown air system was removed and the individual storage heaters were installed, they were wired wrong so they are not connected to the off peak meter.

As already suggested, check previous bills to see if this is the case or not.

Oh and a VERY important question, is this high bill an estimate or based on proper actual readings?

The sparky must have connected them to the nearest supply, i imagine from the closest socket. He didn't mention different meters etc.

The bills are accurate this time but been estimated before. It wasnt an issue until the winter months with my tenant leaving the lounge radiator, biggest in house, on all day even though I told him to set the timer as I would.

Getting back to the 2 two meters, what should I do now to confirm the heaters are connected to the correct system? Ask my supplier to come out then after what they say then get sparky out?

Lastly, I have a timed switch contactor style dial below the meters which I used to hear jamming on or activating at different times. Surely the 2 meters should be interlinked to a timed switch to ensure the power is usage is recorded at watever meter given the time of day?

 

[ProDave]

No you have two completely separate "instalations"  Each of the two meters feeds it's own consumer unit.

When the storage heaters were installed that should have been all new cable from each storage heater back to the off peak consumer unit.

You would probably have needed a new off peak consumer unit as a lot of these systems that used a big central blown air storage system just had a big switch fuse to feed the big heater, so you may have needed to add a consumer unit to give a separate feed to each heater.

If the heaters have just been connnected to the main consumer unit, then you will have been having big bills and zero off peak for some time,

 

[4cres]

No you have two completely separate "instalations"  Each of the two meters feeds it's own consumer unit.

When the storage heaters were installed that should have been all new cable from each storage heater back to the off peak consumer unit.

You would probably have needed a new off peak consumer unit as a lot of these systems that used a big central blown air storage system just had a big switch fuse to feed the big heater, so you may have needed to add a consumer unit to give a separate feed to each heater.

If the heaters have just been connnected to the main consumer unit, then you will have been having big bills and zero off peak for some time,

That sounds exactly what is happening. The sparky just took the supply from the nearest wire instead of from the off peak metre. Correct?

 

[ProDave]

That sounds exactly what is happening. The sparky just took the supply from the nearest wire instead of from the off peak metre. Correct?

Then it all needs rewiring. Get a competent sparky this time.

 

[NozSpark]

What do you mean by "Ceramic core storage heaters"?? could you post a link to the type that you've fitted

I was once asked to investigate a high bill when they had ceramic core heaters.... they only ran off the 24hr supply and they must have left them on the timers instead of just turning them on in the rooms that they wanted to heat

 

[4cres]

What do you mean by "Ceramic core storage heaters"?? could you post a link to the type that you've fitted

I was once asked to investigate a high bill when they had ceramic core heaters.... they only ran off the 24hr supply and they must have left them on the timers instead of just turning them on in the rooms that they wanted to heat

Sorry they are Oscilly ceramic efficient radiators, not storage.

The spark who fitted them informed me today the are designed to be powered off the standard meter only hence why he wired them that way and only the water heater in my house comes off the off peak meter.

It's odd how the off peak meter isnt recording any usage at all though?!?!??

 

[NozSpark]

Those types of heater can be damn expensive to run if you treat them like anything other than an instantaneous heater

 

[4cres]

Those types of heater can be damn expensive to run if you treat them like anything other than an instantaneous heater

My sparky says leave them on and set to 20 degrees and they will maintain that core temp, is that correct?

Also, I am getting zero off peak readings on my meter, should I contact the supplier as surely this is a metering error?

Thanks 

 

[Murdoch]

only the water heater in my house comes off the off peak meter.

It's odd how the off peak meter isnt recording any usage at all though?!?!??

How many immersion heaters / controllers does you immersion tank have?

 

[ProDave]

If you only have "posh panel heaters" then you would be better off switching to a standard single rate tariff.  At the moment you will be paying a higher daytime rate and getting a cheaper night rate that you are not using.

I fail to see how posh panels heaters can make sense, there are some very persuasive salesmen out there. Some of them sound a bit fishy......

 

[UNG]

I think the benefits of these "posh panel heaters" are misleading as the sales spiel quite often suggests that because they are so efficient you will get more out than you put in. I've challenged a number of manufacturers at the shows about the claims but have yet to get any convincing answers as to what makes them so efficient and produce more heat and cost less to run than other electric heaters

Over the last few years I've looked at these panel heaters for a few domestic and commercial projects but can't confidently get the numbers to add up for the customer against what they already have

 

[Evans Electric]

I can only guess that the "Ceramic "  panels  MAY  save a bit of money by the "Ceramic"  packing heating up  like a storage heater  ...the stat shuts down for a while until the Ceramics cool  then kicks in again .   

I would say the better option,  considering the damp  English winters,   would have  been  old fashioned storage heating connected to the OFF PEAK board .  

As said above ,  panel heaters are being pushed by very  pushy advertising .  

 

[Geoff1946]

You can't change physics. A fixed amount of power is a fixed amount of heat generated.

Hence the only efficiencies to be achieved are through ensuring that heat is generated where and especially when it's needed.

Now traditional off peak does not do well at that, BUT if you are buying the OP power at a much lower price its going to take a lot of efficiency saving for full price power to match it.

 

[NozSpark]

To clarify why I think that they're expensive to run....

I had a landlord ask me to fit some German ones that he'd bought (from god knows where)

The new tenant rang me 18 months later saying asking me if I would have a look at them as they had a £3k bill from their electricity provider as they were leaving the property, they'd already been paying something like £200pcm apparently..

I didn't follow this up at all as the landlord was a dick and the tenants were no longer living there