3 Pin Blue 16A Socket

[Stoneman]

Hi,

Got bit of a question...

Looked at a job (large takeaway shop)... They have a single 32A ring to cooking area - appliances (kebab, Bain Marie etc) are on plug tops...the twin surface skts are soon burning out - this must be due to the length of time the appliances are in use and the load the are drawing.

16A sockets seems a solution - but the ring is protected by a B32... With no 'plug top fuse', surely the device cannot be protected.

Just thought I'd ask incase could offer any advice.

Cheers,

Daz

 

[Blue Duck]

16a sockets should be protected by a 16a ocpd.

Split the ring and feed 2 appliances?

 

[apprentice87]

Regs state any number of sockets can be installed, but circuit must be protected by 20A OCPD max...

john...

 

[Blue Duck]

I thought the regs were ambiguous about the use of a 20a breaker? 16a being belt n braces.

:C

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

A twin 13A socket can not take a load of 13A per socket or 26A per unit continuously . Manufacturers specs vary but  its as low as 8A per outlet with many (from memory)

 

[Evans Electric]

Fit a socket for each appliance  perhaps .    Or even a switched spur so one appliance per outlet.

Use quality accessories .      ( If there are any these days )

If they are doing long opening hours , may have to put some 16A radials in to 16A plug & sockets.

You are correct,  you can't come off a ring main without fusing down 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

[SIZE=11pt]If the manufacture of the appliance suggests that their equipment can run off a standard 13A plug then use a standard 13A plug...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt](or spur outlet if unlikely need to unplug and move appliance.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]BUT.. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]as has been pointed out  DO NOT USE DOUBLE SOCKET OUTLETS!!! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]e.g.  6x appliances = 6x Single 13A sockets  NOT  3x double sockets..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]just same as not good putting a washing machine and tumble drier sharing a double socket.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt] :coffee [/SIZE]

 

[binky]

from memory a double socket can suply 20A max

 

[Sidewinder]

20A is the maximum that the BS requires a double socket to carry, and, there is a time limit on this which currently escapes me so would need looking up in the standard.

 

[Stoneman]

Thanks for the replies chaps...

Got a plan sorted - it's a really old building with a pig of a route back to CU. Going to swap CU (no RCD's) then run a 40A 10mm radial to a little board in cooking area feeding 3 16A radials with 3 pin sockets.

Turning into quite a nice job actually...

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks for the replies chaps...

Got a plan sorted - it's a really old building with a pig of a route back to CU. Going to swap CU (no RCD's) then run a 40A 10mm radial to a little board in cooking area feeding 3 16A radials with 3 pin sockets.

Turning into quite a nice job actually...

If you go down this route, I would fit outlet plates and do away with the plugs all together

 

[Sidewinder]

Murdoch,

They probably want the kitchen machines mobile for cleaning, so they can be unplugged etc.

Mind I would want to put interlocked sockets TBH in this sort of environment even just doing a 10s mental risk assessment, plus I would be considering an RCD again due to the RA based on the environment and the typical user profile.

 

[Murdoch]

Murdoch,

They probably want the kitchen machines mobile for cleaning, so they can be unplugged etc.

Mind I would want to put interlocked sockets TBH in this sort of environment even just doing a 10s mental risk assessment, plus I would be considering an RCD again due to the RA based on the environment and the typical user profile.

The op does say cooking appliances. Probably need a bit more information!

 

[Sidewinder]

The op does say cooking appliances. Probably need a bit more information!

Agreed.

 

[poni]

I had this problem some years ago  

we had lots of meals on wheels ovens with 16A plugs  

so I had a 32A ring circuit installed with fused 16A sockets they were also interlocked so they had to turned off before the ovens could be moved

 

[Sidewinder]

Poni,

I have considered this in the past, the main issue being that the 16A sockets are only designed to carry 16A, where as BS 1363 accessories are designed to carry the expected load on a 32A ring.

It is a fine line.

 

[steptoe]

I assume you are talking about the terminals sidewinder ?

 

[Sidewinder]

The whole thing, but yes specifically the terminals.

 

[steptoe]

the thing is,

as Poni pointed out, and I had forgot about these,

you can get 16A sockets that are individually fused/protected,

so it would only be the terminals that are subject to the total load,

and, tbh, looking at a lot of available socket outlets these days, I'd be wondering if their terminals could handle 32 amp  !!  :|

 

[Sidewinder]

1363 sockets are not designed to take 32A, only their expected loading...

I'd have to check, but I think it's only 20A...