8mm microbore rad not getting hot

[Sharpend]

Sorry Luke I've lost the trail here a little. Are you saying that the pipes for the lower floor, come down a void from manifold and then are sunk into concrete slab to each radiator? If so then that to me is a real poor design, copper and concrete are not a happy mix, I had a bungalow whereby the 15mm copper pipes were run through the slab, these were protected with the hessian but unfortunately the hessian had been disturbed when concrete was poured thus resulting in a pin hole leak on the pipe, although it took a number of years to show. 

I thought the whole point of the microbore was so that the pipes could be run more discretely without the need to bury them? :C  

 

[Luke Moreland]

Sorry Luke I've lost the trail here a little. Are you saying that the pipes for the lower floor, come down a void from manifold and then are sunk into concrete slab to each radiator? If so then that to me is a real poor design, copper and concrete are not a happy mix, I had a bungalow whereby the 15mm copper pipes were run through the slab, these were protected with the hessian but unfortunately the hessian had been disturbed when concrete was poured thus resulting in a pin hole leak on the pipe, although it took a number of years to show. 

I thought the whole point of the microbore was so that the pipes could be run more discretely without the need to bury them? :C  

The pipes come down from 1st floor, into the manifold and split off to each rad. It seems as though the pipes go into some sort of concrete or screed at ground level in the cavity I have exposed. I haven't excavated any further so I don't know for sure that its completely covered all the way to the rad.

I'd definitely need to seen the Mrs away before I start pulling up our hallway flooring. I will however lift the living room carpet and see what's below.

Luke

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Luke, nip down the hardware store and get some 2mm or 2.5mm steel wire.

 

[Sharpend]

You might be better to just re pipe the non working rad to minimise the damage. 

 

[Luke Moreland]

With the suspect pipe cut, I used a multimeter to buzz it out, thankfully it is the correct pipe (I was quite nervous during this process, If I had the wrong pipe cut... I think that may have broken me)

Luke, nip down the hardware store and get some 2mm or 2.5mm steel wire.

Yes I think I will, cleaner has been in there for 24 hours now, still a firm block when prodded with 3mm electric draw tape.

You might be better to just re pipe the non working rad to minimise the damage. 

With the cut pipe, I used a bunch of compression fittings and from the manifold I've temporarily piped it up over ground using some 15mm copper pipe and some tap connectors.

Boiler on full whack, heating on 40degC, all rads piping hot (including replaced rad!) Result!

Now that I've isolated the faulty pipe, I'm going to try give it plenty of cleaner fluid and poke it with steel wire. I'm also going to borrow a pressure washer and try flush it from the manifold end, it's 3.5m of 8mm pipe, encased in plastic, it should take a good amount of pressure, provided it isn't kinked or bent too harshly.

I'd much rather try repair/clear the existing pipe than worry about how to pipe it up again.

Thanks for all your help so far!

 

[Doc Hudson]

Now that you have isolated the blocked section of pipe have you retried the push-bike pump via an air tight connection and cranking it up really high? If something like 100psi+ wont shift it then I would think it is set solid. Great to hear you are making progress, it is much more fun here than at a plumbers forum honest!!  Keep going Luke, you will fix it soon, plus you have a whole bunch of electricians rooting for you and hanging on your every post. When you do post that you have fixed it we will all go off for a celebration drink.

Doc H. 

 

[Luke Moreland]

Now that you have isolated the blocked section of pipe have you retried the push-bike pump via an air tight connection and cranking it up really high? If something like 100psi+ wont shift it then I would think it is set solid. Great to hear you are making progress, it is much more fun here than at a plumbers forum honest!!  Keep going Luke, you will fix it soon, plus you have a whole bunch of electricians rooting for you and hanging on your every post. When you do post that you have fixed it we will all go off for a celebration drink.

Doc H. 

It's not fully retired yet, although it could use some further modification to make a better seal, I'll try give it some welly tomorrow.

 

[Doc Hudson]

It's not fully retired yet, although it could use some further modification to make a better seal, I'll try give it some welly tomorrow.

Good man, we will keep a check on the BBC news website for a story about a house in Surrey losing its roof as a pipe blockage is cleared with high pressure pump.

Doc H.  

 

[Sharpend]

I admire your determination. Well done. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Is this guy determined or what !!!!!       

Luke , are you  saying that the copper  8mm pipe is buried in concrete ?    And if so ..is the plastic covering still on it  because if not   ( see my earlier post )    the concrete will have coroded the bare copper  .

I'd suggest at this stage ,  ditch the original pipes and run two new ones  ..in skirting trunking  or boxing  ..whatever gets them to the rad.  Or move the rad to the new pipes .  

I'd say the system was installed by someone , possibly wearing a stetson hat and sixgun , who tied his horse up outside while working at the house .        I say that after looking at the  state  of the soldering  and those cap offs at the manifold .  

Most new houses are thrown together by speed merchants on a tight price  and quality matters for nothing  I'm afraid.     

 

[Luke Moreland]

Is this guy determined or what !!!!!       

Luke , are you  saying that the copper  8mm pipe is buried in concrete ?    And if so ..is the plastic covering still on it  because if not   ( see my earlier post )    the concrete will have coroded the bare copper  .

I'd suggest at this stage ,  ditch the original pipes and run two new ones  ..in skirting trunking  or boxing  ..whatever gets them to the rad.  Or move the rad to the new pipes .  

I'd say the system was installed by someone , possibly wearing a stetson hat and sixgun , who tied his horse up outside while working at the house .        I say that after looking at the  state  of the soldering  and those cap offs at the manifold .  

Most new houses are thrown together by speed merchants on a tight price  and quality matters for nothing  I'm afraid.     

It seems to be buried in screed, I daren't pull up the hallway flooring to see if it covers the entire floor though. Plastic I assume covers it all the way through the ground, atleast it starts a good foot before going in, I assume it's covered end to end, but can't verify that at the rad end.

Now that you have isolated the blocked section of pipe have you retried the push-bike pump via an air tight connection and cranking it up really high? If something like 100psi+ wont shift it then I would think it is set solid. Great to hear you are making progress, it is much more fun here than at a plumbers forum honest!!  Keep going Luke, you will fix it soon, plus you have a whole bunch of electricians rooting for you and hanging on your every post. When you do post that you have fixed it we will all go off for a celebration drink.

Doc H. 

I went one step further, I borrowed an air compressor.

Jury rigged that to the rad end of the isolated 8mm blocked pipe, manifold end of pipe I clipped my drainage hose.

Air compressor on about 2/3rds (~150PSI), a sharp fizz, I hear the gargling of water down the drain pipe, air is getting through!!

Magnificent, I gave it a couple of minutes shooting air down, although I feared my makeshift connection to the pipe was failing me before I swapped the air compressor for some mains water pressure.

Re-checked my connections and gave it full mains pressure, a brief holdup, a tense moment, before the sound of gushing water (in the hose) and the rush of drain water gave me the satisfaction I've been waiting all week for.

The blockage had given way! Or at least in part. Huzzah!

I would put that down to the cleaner going in for a good 48hours and a large amount of air pressure, something that couldn't be achieved without the pipe being isolated, at that point I didn't care much for the pipe it was dead to me, I was just trying anything to clear it before I potentially had to dig it up or bypass it completely.

Here's where the fun starts.

Determined not to drain the system, I decided that my level of plumbing is now far past amateur, and that I could easily reconnect the existing pipe to rad and manifold (I still have the temporary line in between manifold and rad at this time). So I place my sauce pan, tap off the rad, disconnect the temporary flow line and end cap it before it gets everywhere... so far so good, a slight leak, a little bit of gaffa tape and leave it in the sauce pan. Right.

Now it's time to disconnect the manifold end from my temporary line and reconnect the existing (now cleared) 8mm pipe (using 8mm compression). Trying to be quick and hot swap, I just about manage it, only covered myself with the water, phew!

Only to hear "Luke stop, Luke STOP! STOP!!", "What?", "There's water everywhere!"... **** I quickly hot swap back to the temporary pipe and get to the living room.

I only left the valve off the 8mm pipe, connected to the rad and not the pipe! Idiot! Luckily it was largely caught by the plastic sheeting I'd put down a week ago and the water was largely clean, PHEW!

I refit the valve to the pipe and the rad then head back to the manifold, last step, get it swapped over and tightened up before I flood the hallway, again, fortunately I only manage to cover myself in water. I re-evaluated my skill in plumbing and shot myself down to Cowboy.

I tightened everything up, made sure everything was dry and not leaking and put the heating on.

I'm happy to report that the boiler is on full, the heating is on max and the house is baking hot - door is still off its hinges and it looks like the aftermath of the Somme but that's not important right now.

I drained half a rad and added a bottle of cleaner which I'll leave in for a good week, I'll flush it and probably add another bottle before eventually adding inhibitor and I'll fit the TRVs once I've got the cleaner out.

That's been one hell of an adventure. I've learned a lot and I wouldn't have managed it without your help!

 

[Luke Moreland]

Without ALL of your help*

 

[Evans Electric]

Well if you ever get any electrical problems ....try the Plumber's  Forum  . 

 

[Sharpend]

Diamond geezer, well done you, last of the old school of try and try again :Applaud  

now just to to rebuild the rest of the house to keep Mrs Luke happy again!!!

what did you say your job was????

please don't say apprentice plumber ray  

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Luke, you used the Force, and it was strong, and hopefully the stains are not on the dark side. 

Well done.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Good to hear of your success Luke, I wonder how long that pipe has been blocked for needing that much of a kick to clear it? Now you can go and copy this thread over to a plumbing forum, for a full analysis of where we all went wrong by not clearing the problem on the first day. Sorry if we took our time helping you to reach a solution. Anyway we will all go and have a beer now as a double celebration, (a) its Friday (b) your pipe blockage is clear! 

Doc H.

 

[roys]

That was a great read, just read it over the last hour,  well done Luke on getting it sorted.

 

[Evans Electric]

If you were looking for an Electrician's Mate  say ,  this guy is the sort you'd want  .  Willing to learn ... tenacious ... uses his brain .....  not frightened to get stuck into the task in hand .    

 

[Sharpend]

these type of nuggets are few and far between