A Dichotomy Worth Discussion

[Evans Electric]

Stripping a kitchen out for reuse as an office .

The gas man cometh , sorting out gas & plumbing , seems to be an excellent fellow but ,like many of become I guess, a little pedantic.

He announces he has to fill out a form to say the gas bond is'nt accessible and was in the wrong place anyway.

It was already done by whoever rewired , I saw it before builder fitted a plasterboard over it , it was within 600mm of the meter but there were two branches off ,   the only place to fit a clip would be on the outlet  boss of the meter .

Personally I couldn't be bothered and had enough to do anyway but I did say that the connection was made but covered up , the guy says you've got to move it .

I say I can't be bothered , all the pipes are bonded and its within 600 and a hole will have to be cut in the newly painted wall and its not within my remit to go around doing free work .    Also the previous gasman had added the branches in front of the bonding clip , which was , originally in the correct place.  

He says , the gas regs overrule the electrical .

I say , in that case if it worries you that much , you destroy the new decor , move the clip to where you want it and explain the damage to the customer .   What would you have done if we , as sparks, were not here.

So,  do the gas regs overrule ours . ?

 

[M107]

Deke I can concur that is indeed what the BG bods belive...... we had our boiler serviced by BG last week (maybe the week before that) anyway he did the usual stuff at the boiler, then gave it

"I need to check your bonding is in place & meets regulations"

Crack on then mate it's in the cupboard with the meter, by the way the branch through the floor is capped & unused just below the floor.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/gazjothomas/20131017_183730_zps77d2cfa8.jpg

"ahh yes well now having seen that I will have to issue a non compliance on the paperwork for"

wait for it

"undersized conductor, should be 16mm."

"fitted in wrong place (should be near the meter)"

"shouldn't be 2 conductors"

So I (aggressively according to Mrs 107) verbally educated him. Maybe telling him to stick to the gas side of things was a little rude, but heyho.

The 2 conductors by the way are 1x new installed on rewire the 2nd is an old original & is somewhere in a wall because it isn't at the cu or met.

Then to cap it all I get a call from BG this week offering a service where they come & check the house wiring.

 

[col]

 That incoming gas pipe looks undersized to me 

 

[Andy™]

Stripping a kitchen out for reuse as an office .

The gas man cometh , sorting out gas & plumbing , seems to be an excellent fellow but ,like many of become I guess, a little pedantic.

He announces he has to fill out a form to say the gas bond is'nt accessible and was in the wrong place anyway.

It was already done by whoever rewired , I saw it before builder fitted a plasterboard over it , it was within 600mm of the meter but there were two branches off ,   the only place to fit a clip would be on the outlet  boss of the meter .

Personally I couldn't be bothered and had enough to do anyway but I did say that the connection was made but covered up , the guy says you've got to move it .

I say I can't be bothered , all the pipes are bonded and its within 600 and a hole will have to be cut in the newly painted wall and its not within my remit to go around doing free work .    Also the previous gasman had added the branches in front of the bonding clip , which was , originally in the correct place.  

He says , the gas regs overrule the electrical .

I say , in that case if it worries you that much , you destroy the new decor , move the clip to where you want it and explain the damage to the customer .   What would you have done if we , as sparks, were not here.

So,  do the gas regs overrule ours . ?

had similar a few times in the past with external meters, where its bonded on the inside, as per regs. if the plumbit complains, remind him that all your work is fully compliant with 7671, and if he wants it done differently, then he can do it at his own cost, or he can pay you to do it. usually shuts them up

 

[Manator]

BG are well known for this, or should I say were well known for this! I thought when they got their wrists slapped they stopped doing this kind of thing?

Gas regulations do not supersede electrical regulations, if they did all pipes to the boiler would be covered in green an yellow.

They have been shown to be misleading in a court, so just remind them every time you hear a gas engineer condemn any part of an electrical system.

If they continue to issue non compliant certificates without any continuity test results, take them to court simple as that.

 

[Blue Duck]

Then to cap it all I get a call from BG this week offering a service where they come & check the house wiring.

I think you should take them up on that  :slap

 

[M107]

BD I was tempted, infact I will next time them or SSE offer it...............will be interesting to see what they make of the SBS cu.

 

[Rutts35]

I had it on a re-wire. Ran the bonding in and waited patiently for the BG guy to turn up and fit the meter as there was previously no gas. He didn't show so I left. He turns up an hour after I left and fits said meter then explains to the customer that he can't turn the gas on as the bonding isn't connected (it was dangling in front of him with clip loosely attached!!). Then before the customer could ring me he fooked off. 

In their world their regs overrule everything.

 

[Evans Electric]

The gas man who cometh was actually self employed and I would say , a knowledgable gas/plumber who worked quickly and efficiently  TBH  but I just feel , over all the years , you can't go round demanding things are done .  

I think i mentioned a job we went to last week , we did our bit for the kitchen to be fitted , we had to raise the question of the existing wiring , which was an 9  on scale of 1 to 10 .    We upset the bloke because we couldn't re-connect a couple of circuits wired in 0.3mm  figure of 8 bell wire .    We didn't want the rewire and told them that  but it needed doing as a matter of urgency .

They can't afford it  !    Although the kitchen is costing 8K  .     We can do no more .   

 

[Blue Duck]

BD I was tempted, infact I will next time them or SSE offer it...............will be interesting to see what they make of the SBS cu.

They will whack a sticker on it "condemning" it as they won't have seen one before :slap

 

[Nicky Tesla]

an easy peel off sticker

 

[Doc Hudson]

Aren't a lot of the "Gas" personnel on commission or bonus for generating extra work in related areas. Electrics, Drains, Appliances etc. as well as the normal Gas work? Not that any of that would sway their unbiased technical appraisal of a situation. Unless of course it means they have less money coming in for the summer holidays or the Christmas presents.

Doc H.

 

[Blue Duck]

Seen quite a few condemn  stickers on old Dorman smith & crabtree boards when theres absolutely nothing wrong with them!

Just making more work for themselves....

 

[Technician]

I tnink Doc and Manator make good points.  So do others.

Unfortunately, the HSE is policing a lot of gas work and this

MAY be where the "gas man who cometh" is drawing his

inspiration.  You only have to look at the HSE guidance

on this to see why.

A certain major energy supplier who put their prices up

just now is not in my good books for condemning a good,

serviceable gas fire that my mother was using and had

been regularly serviced.  It was attached to a back boiler

which was deemed good for sevice and of the same age

as the condemned fire.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Lets face it the banks and finance industry got itself and us into a right old mess with staff given bonuses for selling unwanted and inappropriate finance products to all and sundry. Cant see how Gas or any other trade for that matter will be any different if the staff have a big commission carrot hanging in front of them when trying to decide if something needs replacing or not! 

Doc H.

 

[Technician]

This business of "upselling" has been extended to ridiculous

limits.  I was travelling by train to Manchester and back and

one night I was in the bar at Victoria Station, under a glorious

stained glass dome.  At least they got that right when they

preserved it.  The barman asked if I would like some crisps,

scratchings or anything else that might refuse me access

to a Bar-Mitzvah.

I asked him if he did this to every customer.  He replied that

if he did not it was a discliplinary and management was

watching.

Dickens desribes the corrupting influence of money in his

novel Our Mutual Friend.  The dust mountain is introduced

as a source of wealth.  Scavengers,  cutpurses and coster-

mongers;  these are the ones who have brought us to this;

and on the dust mountains is where they wish us to live.

 

[Blue Duck]

Am in the office right now reading this and a call comes in saying gas man wont fit meter because theres no bonding.......

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

A plumber and i were both working on a job this week. I finished and have invoiced. He called me yesterday to say he had moved the gas pipe in the basement so my earth bond is now not connected, so he cant turn the boiler on as its against the Gas-safe rules   :red card   :C  

 

[Andy™]

A plumber and i were both working on a job this week. I finished and have invoiced. He called me yesterday to say he had moved the gas pipe in the basement so my earth bond is now not connected, so he cant turn the boiler on as its against the Gas-safe rules   :red card   :C

in which case, give him the invoice for it, since he has tampered with your installation, making it non-compliant

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I have had the same with other plumbers. The most ironic was when a landlord told me  one house had failed the Corgi test as there was no gas bonding ( which i had done years earlier) I went to the job  and there was a cut off 75mm  length of gas pipe dangling in the wind with the 10mm cable still connected to it.  It was banging against  the new 28mm pipe the same plumber had upgraded from a 22mm a few months earlier.