scope of EICR inside/outside flat

[Sharpend]

Utter garbage, sub mains are not required to be RCd protected FT&E or not. The only possible justification for RCding a submain is if it is plastered into a wall at less than 50mm deep, but how would he prove that, and even then I believe I am correct in saying it's still utter garbage.

is a sub main not part of an electrical installation? 

 

[ElectricSpecs]

Utter garbage, sub mains are not required to be RCd protected FT&E or not. The only possible justification for RCding a submain is if it is plastered into a wall at less than 50mm deep, but how would he prove that, and even then I believe I am correct in saying it's still utter garbage.

Thanks Blinky.

TBH i dont understand the whole depth of wall thing. Seems to be a reg /factor that many electricians arent interested in due to it's utter impracticality.

Does anyone else concur ?

 

[Sharpend]

I’d have thought that more electricians would err on the side of caution and presume that cables in a wall would be at 50mm or less? Unless it’s blatantly obvious. 
box standard walls would be significantly weakened if a depth of greater than 50mm is removed, of course there are plenty of non box standard wall available. 
:C  

 

[Murdoch]

. Not much you can do...they may come crawling back.

Like some potential customers I come across ...... I tend to walk away and do work I get paid for

 

[Murdoch]

is a sub main not part of an electrical installation? 

now THAT is an interesting point.

I'd say no - its part of the electrics in the communal areas .................

 

[Sharpend]

now THAT is an interesting point.

I'd say no - its part of the electrics in the communal areas .................

so when is an electrical installation not an Electrcial installation? 
 

when it’s in communal areas???

 

[Murdoch]

so when is an electrical installation not an Electrcial installation? 
 

when it’s in communal areas???

let the debate begin?

 

[ElectricSpecs]

OK so laymans take on all this.

The flat is in a block which comprises of several other flats. All of the wiring is physically connected.

So there has to be demarkation of the buildings installation(s) into segments. I cannot be held responsible for what bob in number 5 does etc.

So the question is whether the wiring in the commumal parts is owned by the respective flat owners or the block. The lease bascically limts rights and respinsibilities to the interiors of the individual flats apart from joint repsinsiblity for communal areas via the freeholder/managemant company.

To my way of thinking it isn't.

 

[binky]

is a sub main not part of an electrical installation? 

you can't plug your lawn mower into a submain. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty darn sure I am not, but submains and other dedicated ccts , like a fridge freezer supply do not require RCDs.

It's a reliability issue, 1 RCd on submain trips out entire system thereby failing minimimising risk by fitment of multiple RCDs, which is not possible. 

OK so laymans take on all this.

The flat is in a block which comprises of several other flats. All of the wiring is physically connected.

So there has to be demarkation of the buildings installation(s) into segments. I cannot be held responsible for what bob in number 5 does etc.

So the question is whether the wiring in the commumal parts is owned by the respective flat owners or the block. The lease bascically limts rights and respinsibilities to the interiors of the individual flats apart from joint repsinsiblity for communal areas via the freeholder/managemant company.

To my way of thinking it isn't.

Ergo the communal area is 'commercial' not domestic. 

 

[binky]

Thanks Blinky.

TBH i dont understand the whole depth of wall thing. Seems to be a reg /factor that many electricians arent interested in due to it's utter impracticality.

Does anyone else concur ?

it's about Joe Bloggs not banging a nail or screw into a cable when hanging shelves or pictures. As sub main is in communal area(?) then no one who is not a trained tradesperson should be doing anything in that area anyway, and should no to spot / look for cables - nice theory, reality is a bit different  Sub mains tend to be run deeper within the fabric of the building anyway, or in the case of purpose built flats, run in stell conduit or surface ducting. Trouble is, unless you take the building apart what actually happens to the cable between the ends you can see is impossible to tell.

 

[Murdoch]

The last flat I did an EICR on I stated that the EICR covered the fuseboard in the flat and it’s circuits 

what a daft world we live in

it’s a bit like the EICR asking us to comment on the incoming supply cable , head etc .... it’s not something that we can change so shouldn’t even be on the form imho

 

[ElectricSpecs]

The last flat I did an EICR on I stated that the EICR covered the fuseboard in the flat and it’s circuits 

what a daft world we live in

it’s a bit like the EICR asking us to comment on the incoming supply cable , head etc .... it’s not something that we can change so shouldn’t even be on the form imho

I think it's worth reiterating what i said in my original post:

I've asked my electrician if this is actually in scope as it says on the report that the EICR covers "all power and lighting circuits emanating from consumer unit only". To me this means downstream of the CU. But speaking to the electrician he says i am responsible for the supply from the meter onwards.

 

[Sharpend]

I will refer you back to my first post. 

 

[binky]

I think it's worth reiterating what i said in my original post:

I've asked my electrician if this is actually in scope as it says on the report that the EICR covers "all power and lighting circuits emanating from consumer unit only". To me this means downstream of the CU. But speaking to the electrician he says i am responsible for the supply from the meter onwards.

back to the meter is yours

 

[Sidewinder]

Not quite, if there are common areas, then the building owner is responsible for the safety of these areas, and they are the building network operator.

Check the Electrical Safety Roundtable guidance on rental housing. (Internet search should find it)

 

[phil d]

With regards to the frequency of an EICR in rental properties I know that most if not all large social landlords, housing associations, councils, etc do an EICR at every change of tenancy. I used to do EICR's for a chap I knew who rented a number of properties and I used to do his at every change of tenant, and a lot of the time it was a good job I did.

The only one I never charged him for, and it was one of those loss leaders, I suppose you'd call it was when I'd inspected a property and the new tenant moced in, only to move out again a month later.

I know landlords may not like paying for what they see as unneccesary paperwork (having these tests done) but they have no idea of knowing the installation is safe when the previous tenant moves out, can they be sure they haven't messed with the wiring? no they can't, The chap I used to work for ended up putting something in his tenancy agreement that only his electrician (me) was allowed to do any work on the properties, recently another friend of mine began to rent out a property, I did the EICR on it and after a year the tenant moved out, I went back and retested, everything was in good order, the tenant hadn't messed with anything. However after they advertised it again a prospective tenant came to view the property and loved it, they did however have one request, if they rented it they'd like to replace the existing light fittings with their own, would this be possible?

My mate didn't really want to do this, but said it could be done at their expense, provided it was me who carried out the work, they declined this, they were more than capable of swapping a few light fittings! Needless to say they didn't end up renting the property, he didn't want them messing about with the wiring and I don't blame him, back in the day before Covid closed all the pubs it was amazing how many plumbers, electricians, joiners, etc could be found in even the smallest pub on an evening, or at least that's what they said they were, lol

The bottom line is it's up to the landlord to be able to prove that the gas and electrical systems in their rental properties are maintained to a safe standard, and I think if someone was to move into a rental and then get hurt as a result of something  the previous tenant had done the landlord would be on a very sticky wicket indeed.