A near miss.

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Hi,

Thanks for the information and link phil d. It's a few years ago I visited Farnell's in Leeds trade counter; the staff were always pleasant and most helpful; minimum spend was only £5;  whilst I waited for my order I would browse the goodies being sold off cheaply on display. I have a couple of DMM's which I use for continuity testing so could you please explain the difference of the one in the link; I'm keen to trace cables under the bungalow so any information is most welcome.

Kind regards, Col.

 
Hi,

Thanks for the information and link phil d. It's a few years ago I visited Farnell's in Leeds trade counter; the staff were always pleasant and most helpful; minimum spend was only £5;  whilst I waited for my order I would browse the goodies being sold off cheaply on display. I have a couple of DMM's which I use for continuity testing so could you please explain the difference of the one in the link; I'm keen to trace cables under the bungalow so any information is most welcome.

Kind regards, Col.
It's basically a simple continuity tester but it has the ability to identify which is which in a pair, if you want to trace a cable without breaking into it then a tone and amp set is the way to go, they're commonly used in telecoms work and handle a maximum of about 50 volt, so normally used on a dead cable. what you do is use the toner to inject a signal at one end of the cable and it's radiated along it, by placing the amp along the cable you can tell if it's the one you want as the signal is picked up by the amp. I have a mains version that will detect cables buried to a depth of a metre on a live cable but they are much more expensive. below is a relatively cheap tone and amp set, I have one of these too, they're pretty good,

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/ten01023/toneprobe-kit/dp/IN05266

 
Yep....tone tracer all the way

had to find a cable in a 5000 port comes room yesterday

tone tracer in socket

waft probe around cabinet

five minutes tops!

and my new Ideal VDV Pro from @megger mark has a built in toner as well!....must do,a review on it sometime. Don't know how I managed so long without it
Oh yes a tone tracer, or as we called them a tone and amp is one of those bit's of kit that once you have one you wonder how you ever got by without one, and if ever you are unsure about a cable you simply short it out, this nulls the tone and is a second proof that you have the right cable.

 
Oh yes a tone tracer, or as we called them a tone and amp is one of those bit's of kit that once you have one you wonder how you ever got by without one, and if ever you are unsure about a cable you simply short it out, this nulls the tone and is a second proof that you have the right cable.
Used them for years ....saved me countless hours of time.

another 'trick' is to put the Amp Probe in between the pairs and it goes quieter. If you have no comms  available then short pair out...light flashes at source end and your oppo can switch to,next pair. Flash it 10"times and its brew time. My new VDV Pro,has ability to,tone a single core as well,as all 8 cores AND it has "port blink" which I will,go,into,later

just luvvin it thank you @megger mark 

 
It's a few years ago I visited Farnell's in Leeds trade counter


Same, but different Farnell, Farnell bought CPC some years ago. The Farnell of today is not the same as the Farnell of days gone by, and CPC is the consumer end of the Farnell group, different company just owned by Farnell.

 
I like the Fluke too, I use the one with a built in torch, it comes in handy, the other day the old guy at the farm was trying to fix his bathroom light and asked if we had a neon screwdriver, I ended up replacing the light fitting, but got him a voltstick from the wholesalers, whilst there are certain limited uses for a neon driver, in most cases a voltstick is safer. The fluke one is that sensitive you can actually tell which side of a T&E the live is lying on.
You have obviously never encountered a situation where the volt stick did not show live, but the neon DID.

I would NEVER trust a non contact device to prove dead. They can (to some extent) prove live and the non contact way they work can check a cable (again with limitations) before you cut it.

Use a proper meter to REALLY prove dead.

I am still waiting for someone to show me a real world example of where harm was actually done to someone using a neon screwdriver. People seem to worry about the microamps that flow through you and talk about the risk of component failure within them making them lethal, but I have never seen an example of this actually happening.

 
Hi,

Many thanks once again phil d for your excellent and informative advice; I've just bought one of CPC Tone & Probe Tester kits at £22.58 inc delivery which you kindly recommended. I had a good look at the specifications because where these tone testers are concerned I'm a total novice although I understand their principle because for years I used sig gens on vintage valve radios. I was a bit concerned to see these are manufactured in China and would have preferred to buy something of Flude quality but it would bring tears to my eyes paying the difference; I feel owning one of these tone testers just for home use it will be seldom used but when needed it will be needed badly; at the price it will quickly pay for itself and I like buying useful kit; if I've got the correct kit then any problems are down to me? 

I've only been a member of this forum for a few days but already I've learned a great deal; it's time I bought more electrical testing kit because I'm always doing jobs around the bungalow and once bought the kit will last a lifetime given my low usage of it. I only ordered this tone probe a few minutes ago and a message has just popped up to say it's with "My Hermes" on its way to me; top marks CPC for rapid service.

Thanks Lurch for enlightening me with the Farnell information; things are constantly changing and its a few years since I paid Farnell's a visit. During my latter years working at Brook Motors I would arrive at work on a Monday morning and ask what the company was called this week due to the number of take overs? With free postage at CPC it's not worth the time and fuel to collect just sit back and let stress pass me by; I must be getting into retirement at last?

Thanks guys for all your replies which are most helpful; I've asked for help and I've acted on the replies by buying new kit you've kindly recommended.

Kind regards, Col.

 
You have obviously never encountered a situation where the volt stick did not show live, but the neon DID.

I would NEVER trust a non contact device to prove dead. They can (to some extent) prove live and the non contact way they work can check a cable (again with limitations) before you cut it.

Use a proper meter to REALLY prove dead.

I am still waiting for someone to show me a real world example of where harm was actually done to someone using a neon screwdriver. People seem to worry about the microamps that flow through you and talk about the risk of component failure within them making them lethal, but I have never seen an example of this actually happening.
I don't fully trust any device such as the above, either voltsick or neon, however for the amateur who insists on poking about I think the voltstick is safer, no chance of trying to poke into a terminal and bridging a live and earth. I knew an electrician some years ago who got a nasty belt off a neon, his apprentice had dropped it into a sink full of water then dried it out with a tea towel. Obviously the newer ones are sealed to prevent that happening,  neon screwdrivers are handy for proving polarity on a tncs system, in fact they are probably the only way due to not having a separate earth to reference to. I still use a Drummond test lamp and a proving unit most of the time but I do find uses for a voltstick, it's just a handy thing to keep in your top pocket for a quick test, bit like those socket testers that do earth loop tests, you'd never rely on one for a proper test however they are handy when doing a walk round, if you get a reading you're not happy with then out comes the loop tester.

I've found issues on circuits before now when I wasn't actually looking for them, a lot of the gear these days isn't intended to do a full job, just to give you an idea there may be a problem, it's how you use it that matters. A certain large organisation uses a type of loop tester that uses lights instead of a meter, green light meaning good earth is between W and X ohms, amber meaning check and is between X and Y ohms and red meaning poor or no earth is above Y ohms. now the value between W and X can be beyond the limits for certain breakers and imo shouldn't be used as a definitive test, which is what this firm are using them for, however if say you had a caretaker checking sockets in a building between inspections then such a device would be useful, no values to remember, if it lights anything other than green then get the electrician in.

I remember years ago in my apprentice days, back then loop testers were few and far between, rcd testers unheard of, we'd done some work and the old spark was testing a bond to a metal sink top, he took his Drummond test lamp and inserted one probe into the live on a socket, the other went on the metal sink, it lit. Now while this would almost certainly be frowned on today, back in the day it did prove earth.  

 
Fluke voltstick is the only one to have. The Kewtech one is too sensitive so you can't isolate conductors. And you can turn the beep off on the Fluke for those times when you don't want to be startled by the noise.

 
I agree with you on the kewtech, had one of those once and didn't rate it, but I think I actually prefer the original voltsticks https://shop.cie-group.com/shop/test_4/instant-voltage-testers_138/non-contact-voltage-tester-yellow-230vac_1064.php to the fluke version.

For some reason I seem to end up with a load of voltsticks, end up loosing them, and then find them later... I have just re-gained the original one I was taking about.... my father brought it round after finding in down the side of his sofa, where it must have dropped when I popped round for a cup of tea on the way home!

 
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