ADS

[spinlondon]

Plumber,Once again you have misquoted.

You have been warned / advised by the mods about this.

Don't forget Sellers.

He did it wrong too.

 

[Sidewinder]

Spin,

I don't care who Sellers is quoting or misquoting, as long as it is not me.

If he decides to copy from the brb right or wrong, his problem.

IMHO Plumber is suggesting that he is quoting my posts, however IMHO he is misquoting my posts thus this is why I am commenting.

 

[sellers]

I don't know if my brb is different to anyone elses but thats whats written down!

 

[spinlondon]

I don't see that Plumber has mis-quoted you.

The warnings from the moderators were about the manner in which he makes quotes, not about whether they are mis-quotes, unless you're refering to a different thread.

Sorry Sellers you haven't quoted incorrectly at all, I was being facetious.

 

[Sidewinder]

Spin,

IF you are the same Spinlondon.

It seems that you cannot bully OMS, rocknroll & GeoffBlackwell, so you come here to bully us mere mortals.

Can you please not be so argumentative, you are not the definitive answer to BS7671.

This has been proven.

IF you are not the same Spinlondon the please accept my apologies.

 

[spinlondon]

Oh dear my apologies for bruising your fragile ego.

My comments still stand, and if you really think that OMS et al are bullied by me, I suggest you think again.

 

[Sidewinder]

Spin,

You have not bruised my fragile ego at all.

Sorry.

Why should I have one?

To me it just seemed that you could not get one over on them with your views so you tried to do it on here where the rest of us are not quite so qualified.

Noting that some of the posters there actually sit on regs & standards panels.

 

[spinlondon]

Don't think I am attempting to get one over on anybody, either there or here.

As for people on this forum not being so qualified, I think you are under selling the members of this forum.

I don't think you will find that many of the regular posters sit on panels, a couple have done so in the past.

However as the forum is primarily for members, and some members do sit on panels one would expect some of the posters to sit on panels, although there is nothing preventing non-members from joining.

 

[Chr!s]

Spin,IF you are the same Spinlondon.

It seems that you cannot bully OMS, rocknroll & GeoffBlackwell, so you come here to bully us mere mortals.

Can you please not be so argumentative, you are not the definitive answer to BS7671.

This has been proven.

IF you are not the same Spinlondon the please accept my apologies.

The three gentlemen you mention are quite exceptional without doubt, but i can assure you spin stands his ground very well like the rest of us sometimes rightly and sometimes wrongly, and that includes the three gentlemen you have mentioned.

Thats what makes these forums useful we all learn from them, evev the ones that think they know it all

 

[safedepth]

Very true Doc, those primarily involved in domestic, have little idea of what goes on in the wider world of contracting. Where BS 7671 is manipulated, even ignored to the Contractors benifit, by there design and site Electrical Engineers, but will still comply electrically and be of a high standard. So long as the engineering etc have been signed by the responsible Qualified Engineer, in exactly the same way he would sign off his Engineering following the Regs to the letter, everything is perfectly fine... As been stated by others here, TT systems can most certainly comply without the need of RCDs. But alas, not with the general standard of installing TT systems of today, and certainly not with a single Rod!!!.... Far too many are relying on RCD devices and ignoring the basics of an installations needs/requirements.

Applying BS7671 to every situation, and to every enviroment is almost an impossible quest. Like most laws and regulations , there is no such thing as fit all document, it will always need adapting, tweaking and whatever, to get the best desired results!!!

Larnacaman,

Whilst I would agree from a personal standpoint, I would say your phrasing is slightly belittling of the "house basher". We have no need to understand the "wider world of contracting" but that does not mean we are unable to do our jobs correctly. If you meant no offence by your phrasing and I have miss interpreted you, I apologise.

Incidentally, from time to time commercial contractors post on this forum asking domestic questions which some might perceive as basic, because by their own admission they don't become involved in domestic on a regular basis and lose touch. This does not make them inferior to anyone. On the contrary they have the sense to realise their shortcomings and ask.

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[Voltimax]

Don't start bringing in the name of those IET members. They are nothing but self important and self righteous politicians.

 

[Sidewinder]

Don't start bringing in the name of those IET members. They are nothing but self important and self righteous politicians.

That may well be.

Are they all IET members?

I'm not so sure...?

 

[Larnacaman]

Larnacaman,Whilst I would agree from a personal standpoint, I would say your phrasing is slightly belittling of the "house basher". We have no need to understand the "wider world of contracting" but that does not mean we are unable to do our jobs correctly. If you meant no offence by your phrasing and I have miss interpreted you, I apologise.

Incidentally, from time to time commercial contractors post on this forum asking domestic questions which some might perceive as basic, because by their own admission they don't become involved in domestic on a regular basis and lose touch. This does not make them inferior to anyone. On the contrary they have the sense to realise their shortcomings and ask.

Merry Christmas to all.

Not at all Safedepth, I try not to belittle, or offend anyone. I was just trying to make the point, that there is a far greater world out there in the electrical industry, than the domestic scene.

I was not going to comment further on this particular thread, because there were some that couldn't grasp what i was trying to relay in my previous posts on this thread. I didn't want to get into the situation sidewinder now finds himself in. He has correctly, made his position as clear as he can, but there are some, that still disbelieve that quite a few aspects of the Reg's can be disregarded, manipulated (if that's the right word) but will still fully comply with the fundamental requirements of the Reg's. That may not happen too often in Domestic installations, but it certainly does elsewhere in the industry. Especially where major contractors are involved, that can legitimately save substantial money on electrical installations....

 

[Voltimax]

That may well be.Are they all IET members?

I'm not so sure...?

My apologies, what I should have said was IET forum members.

Two of the names mentioned are just there to stir the pot and upset hard working electricians. I have nothing but contempt for these people and won't even enter in on discussions they are a part of.

 

[kme]

+1 to THAT

 

[Chr!s]

Larnacaman

SideWinder, your right, RCDS are, and should be considered as ''Additional protection''

If anyone is struggling to grasp the thread it is you.

Get the basics right first, .....Then add your ''save all'' RCD device.

Well the basic would be knowing that on most TT installations disconnection via a fuse or mcb is unlikely.

Few if any Deign Engineers use the Regs for calculation, cable sizing, demand factors and many other areas, are you saying they don't know what there doing, or that they are wrong???

you can use what ever guidance you like, but i think you will find all of the above mentioned falls within the scope of BS7671.

Lets take Maximum demand, theres little guidance for designers in BS7671 so we may use the IEC document, but it still falls within the scope of BS7671

An RCD, is not a ''prerequisite'' in general terms for ADS, except in specific circumstances....

It is a prerequisite if the only means of automatic disconnection is through the use of an RCD.

As been stated by others here, TT systems can most certainly comply without the need of RCDs. But alas, not with the general standard of installing TT systems of today, and certainly not with a single Rod!!!.... Far too many are relying on RCD devices and ignoring the basics of an installations needs/requirements.

You can stick as many rods as you like in, the dnos only have to ensure there's is as low as 21 ohms, so you can bang in as many as you like

I was not going to comment further on this particular thread, because there were some that couldn't grasp what i was trying to relay in my previous posts on this thread. I didn't want to get into the situation sidewinder now finds himself in. He has correctly, made his position as clear as he can, but there are some, that still disbelieve that quite a few aspects of the Reg's can be disregarded, manipulated (if that's the right word) but will still fully comply with the fundamental requirements of the Reg's. That may not happen too often in Domestic installations, but it certainly does elsewhere in the industry. Especially where major contractors are involved, that can legitimately save substantial money on electrical installations....

Its not that people dont grasp what your saying, we know theres lot of guidance and different means to comply with BS7671, but i fail to see what it has got to do with the thread.

 

[sprocketflup]

Well, I hope you're satisfied SmithJim0001 :^O

Merry xmas one and all

 

[Larnacaman]

Plumber,

Your now showing your ignorance too much, you THINK you know what your talking about, but in reality you Don't!!

I'm not going to play your argumentative games. Play them with someone that has the inclination and the time.

 

[Chr!s]

Your now showing your ignorance too much, you THINK you know what your talking about, but in reality you Don't!! I'm not going to play your argumentative games. Play them with someone that has the inclination and the time.

I back my posts up with fact, where as in this post you talk the talk, but cant walk the walk.

Ill tell you what i do know, someone has a big ego with little to back it up

 

[Chr!s]

Plumber: Do you need me to post a video on how to do a proper reply using the QUOTE or MULTI QUOTE button ? (That way you may grasp how to do it properly)

Do you know how hard it is to read your replies when i cant see who you are quoting for the most part

And you should get rid of that signature or is it just there to wind folk up

Canoe, yes i agree, i think i need some tuition on replying lol