The fear of losing the PEN on PME systems is certainly worrying them .
All keeping up with EV charging points ?
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Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Is this a statement or have you a link?
Sorry it is a bit of an empty statement . I 'd just read an article in the PE magazine from NAPIT who are addressing the Amendments that seem to be flooding in on fitting an EV charging plug .
Or , simplified , wiring an outside socket.
The worst news you need when looking at an install is that the main supply will be PME .
Probably me getting old but it seems to be the most complicated in the Regs book ...installing an EV plug. There are three pages of stuff which have to be studied before tackling a charger plug .
I'll copy a small bit :
"A further requirement is that where a device is provided for the purposes of (iii) , (iv) and (v) the protective conductors and exposed conductive parts downstream of the protective device shall have no connection to :
(a) Any protective conductors or exposed conductive parts of any circuit not protected by the same protective device or :
(b) Any extraneous conductive parts . "
There is also of course ,the selection of an RCD from a Type A .....type B ....Type AC....Type F ....RDC-DD complying to BS IEC 62955.
The article needs to be read , TBH .
I read somewhere else that there are EV sockets which contain a device that disconnects the supply in 5 s if it detects the loss of the PEN , earth rods not needed etc
Just run a cable , stick one of these on the wall and Robert is your Mom's brother.
Or , simplified , wiring an outside socket.
The worst news you need when looking at an install is that the main supply will be PME .
Probably me getting old but it seems to be the most complicated in the Regs book ...installing an EV plug. There are three pages of stuff which have to be studied before tackling a charger plug .
I'll copy a small bit :
"A further requirement is that where a device is provided for the purposes of (iii) , (iv) and (v) the protective conductors and exposed conductive parts downstream of the protective device shall have no connection to :
(a) Any protective conductors or exposed conductive parts of any circuit not protected by the same protective device or :
(b) Any extraneous conductive parts . "
There is also of course ,the selection of an RCD from a Type A .....type B ....Type AC....Type F ....RDC-DD complying to BS IEC 62955.
The article needs to be read , TBH .
I read somewhere else that there are EV sockets which contain a device that disconnects the supply in 5 s if it detects the loss of the PEN , earth rods not needed etc
Just run a cable , stick one of these on the wall and Robert is your Mom's brother.
now where’s my copy of pe?
ive just finished a job for a NHBC inspector.... we got chatting about regs.... his main issue is builders claiming not to know regs that changed 10 years ago
we both agreed that most of the regs are too complicated and too open to interpretation ...
so back to 13 a ev points .....I was trying to convince a customer a few days ago they need a special socket at home ..... let’s just say he’s not convinced as “most sockets I use are standard sockets”
which just about sums up the situation,
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
The very first course on EV charging and the subsequent COP book required them to be TT installed, then this was relaxed I believe or at least that’s what PodPoint told me, then came along this special device inside the unit to detect a fault on Neutral supply and all was solved in the world? Are we now heading back to TT?
I always wonder where is the best point of place the earth rod on these installs given the radius from existing earth system? Never mind the tarmac drive or pathway?
I always wonder where is the best point of place the earth rod on these installs given the radius from existing earth system? Never mind the tarmac drive or pathway?
so this does suggest that we visit friends and family in our EVs , and need a charge via our granny charger, things could get very tricky ....
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
Just thinking out loud??
these on street EV chargers that the councils put in, when you plug your vehicle and pay for the time/elec required what happens when it finishes charging and you are not there to A)unplug vehicle B) move vehicle for next persons use?
these on street EV chargers that the councils put in, when you plug your vehicle and pay for the time/elec required what happens when it finishes charging and you are not there to A)unplug vehicle B) move vehicle for next persons use?
A Monty Python type giant boot appears , hovers , then stomps your car flat .
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
another thought?
so you can’t get onto the street charger to charge vehicle, that means the following morning do you have to call in ‘sick’ for work?
so the conversation goes;
“ sorry boss I’m not going to be in today..”
”what is it evans, COVID? “
”No boss- number 57 wouldn’t move their electric car from the street charger so I couldn’t charge mine until this morning, I’ll be in tomorrow, providing wife doesn’t borrow car today!”
so you can’t get onto the street charger to charge vehicle, that means the following morning do you have to call in ‘sick’ for work?
so the conversation goes;
“ sorry boss I’m not going to be in today..”
”what is it evans, COVID? “
”No boss- number 57 wouldn’t move their electric car from the street charger so I couldn’t charge mine until this morning, I’ll be in tomorrow, providing wife doesn’t borrow car today!”
LOL.... as I bet you have gathered, I've been reading the EV COP .... it's another 150ish pages on top of section 722..... the earth rodding section is mind blowing TBH....
the much easier option is to either fit a Matt-e type device (O-PEN protection) or fit an EV charger with one built in (loads of them about now) - which also seem to have the correct type of RCD (A, B or F types) so it's very possible to supply these via a MCB in SWA (or another installation method that precludes RCD protection)
the much easier option is to either fit a Matt-e type device (O-PEN protection) or fit an EV charger with one built in (loads of them about now) - which also seem to have the correct type of RCD (A, B or F types) so it's very possible to supply these via a MCB in SWA (or another installation method that precludes RCD protection)
This is something that I don't think they've thought about yet.... even for charging stations in car parks.... IMHO they need to make it so that you return to your car to unplug and move it to a regular parking space.... maybe a late disconnection fee added by the 1/4 hr or something like that... obviously they'd also need a way to let you know that your car is charged
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
A large sign warning that leaving the vehicle plugged in will render batteries useless?
a super load siren when it’s finished charging that doesn’t silence until the vehicle is moved?
Or we could use something that’s less hassle something like Petrol?
a super load siren when it’s finished charging that doesn’t silence until the vehicle is moved?
Or we could use something that’s less hassle something like Petrol?
LOL.... can't see that happening with all the green things that the government are signing up to
After some thought surely the correct way to resolve this situation is to mandate to the manufacturers so that all suitable protection is built in to the charges then all we need is adequate supply from the source and if there products don’t comply they can’t sell them in the UK
that would keep it simple
as it stands we have the tail wagging the dog
that would keep it simple
as it stands we have the tail wagging the dog
The problem is that the technology is advancing faster than the regulation/guidance notes.... the latest guidance note mentions O-PEN protective devices, but not in a technical way... saying that they are in development and that they’ll need to disconnect all live conductors to ensure that a touch voltage of 70V is disconnected within 5 seconds
that might be a reasonable point but expecting a few thousand sparks to buy the COP , read 150 pages and understand it all is a stretch if you ask me
TBH it's quite repetitive..... there are 3 basic installations..... domestic, on-street & workplace and each have their own section with much of it repeated in each....
however, being blunt.. if you're installing EV chargers then you should have the COP and have sat the course.. the same as you would with any other 'specialist' area
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I have yet to be asked to install an EV charge point. I suspect as EV's are relatively new, most are bought through dealers and things like home charge points are offered as part of the package.
It will probably not be until the private purchase of second hand ev's becomes common that there will be much of a market for the new owner seeking a local sparky to install a charge point for them.
It will probably not be until the private purchase of second hand ev's becomes common that there will be much of a market for the new owner seeking a local sparky to install a charge point for them.
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So far I have fitted.... ONE....
over 12months ago.. (Oct 2019)
Customer had bought the charger himself.. and just wanted it connected..
Supply was TNS..
So NO PME issues to pooh about..
One of my long term regular customer did mention a few weeks ago that they may be looking at buying an electric car when they next change one of the two cars they have!
I think they currently have a 60A.. possibly 80A supply fuse!
So far I have fitted.... ONE....
over 12months ago.. (Oct 2019)
Customer had bought the charger himself.. and just wanted it connected..
Supply was TNS..
So NO PME issues to pooh about..
One of my long term regular customer did mention a few weeks ago that they may be looking at buying an electric car when they next change one of the two cars they have!
I think they currently have a 60A.. possibly 80A supply fuse!
Ahhh... but there are.... unless you can guarantee that it will stay entirely TNS, as in having a private transformer
