All keeping up with EV charging points ?

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Ahhh... but there are.... unless you can guarantee that it will stay entirely TNS, as in having a private transformer
and this really shouldn’t be our problem if the DNO’s were to maintain their installations in keeping with its original design. I for one don’t have the ability to second guess what has been replaced by the DNO and can only go on what is in front of me. Yes a Ze and Zn will give indication if something is amiss but that is not a certainty? So should we work to the assumption that everything is a PME or if it isn’t it soon will be? 
I’d like to know when it became our responsibility what the DNO installs or changes? 

 
And the answer to all the above is hydrogen fuel cells. Go to gas station plug in, wait a coupe of minutes, pay and drive away. No complcated regs, no digging up roads to beef up infrastructure, no trailing leads, no worries  :^O

I fail to see much difference between a car on your drive, and plugging in your lawn mower, bar the obvious heavier load. I looked at EV a few years ago, and decided I can't be arsed to get involved - keeping life simples! 

 
I fail to see much difference between a car on your drive, and plugging in your lawn mower, bar the obvious heavier load. I looked at EV a few years ago, and decided I can't be arsed to get involved - keeping life simples! 
Thats more or less how I saw it .      Fitting an EV charger suddenly became the most complicated thing in the Domestic situation  .      Fit an outside socket , yep, as long as theres a n RCD back up . 

 
Glad its not just me .   Lets be honest , who wants to be arsed  banging rods in unless they have to .   Specially where they have a lovely new Cretaprint driveway say .   

All we need is a box with the correct gizmos in it ....nail it to the wall , ....run a suitable  cable  back to the board . 

 
Glad its not just me .   Lets be honest , who wants to be arsed  banging rods in unless they have to .   Specially where they have a lovely new Cretaprint driveway say .   

All we need is a box with the correct gizmos in it ....nail it to the wall , ....run a suitable  cable  back to the board . 


But that would make it easy, and not require training courses at great expense  :^O

 
All we need is a box with the correct gizmos in it ....nail it to the wall , ....run a suitable  cable  back to the board . 
I think that’s what I said.

cars sold in the uk have to meet criteria, can’t see why EV chargers are any different

just imagine in a few years time EV 1 fails and is replaced by the homeowner by EV 2 - and it’s the cheapest ..... suddenly it’s not compliant and he’ll never know

nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense

But that would make it easy, and not require training courses at great expense  :^O
which would be ideal for everybody, except the people ripping us off currently

 
LOL.... as I bet you have gathered, I've been reading the EV COP .... it's another 150ish pages on top of section 722..... the earth rodding section is mind blowing TBH....

the much easier option is to either fit a Matt-e type device (O-PEN protection) or fit an EV charger with one built in (loads of them about now) - which also seem to have the correct type of RCD (A, B or F types) so it's very possible to supply these via a MCB in SWA (or another installation method that precludes RCD protection)
Not all EVSEs incorporate the RCBO, e.g. EO units.

 
Or the other simple answer is bang a rod in just for the charger and you are covered whatever anyone else does.
The problem is that banging a rod in is not the simple answer.... IIRC they have to be 10m or more away from any other metallic service otherwise the TT installation could be compromised by that and still effectively be PME

The easiest option is to fit an EVSE with O-PEN protection built in or fit a Matt-e type device at the source of the circuit

The EV code of practice basically says that we have to assume that even TNS supplies will be PME somewhere or may be converted (or partially converted) to PME at some point in the future

 
The EV code of practice basically says that we have to assume that even TNS supplies will be PME somewhere or may be converted (or partially converted) to PME at some point in the future


Part of the problem is that we define things slightly differently from the DNO, we all know that TNS is a separate path to the star point of the transformer and TNCS uses the neutral. The DNO don't tend to talk about TNS and TNC-S, they talk about CNE and SNE (Combined and Separate Neutral/Earth) which at first glance you might think, well CNE is TNCS and SNE is TNS, however not all SNE is TNS in truth. The DNO will assign the SNE deisgnation to a supply where the cable off the joint in the street into the building has a separte earth and neutral conductor, even if they are joined to the same conductor in the cable under the road, it does have some advantages, as long as the joints are made to more or less the same location on the street cable (and of course the same one) you can have multiple services in building that shares common steelwork with a much reduced chance of currents in the steel than if you brought them in as CNE (which they often won't do for this reason), but its not true TNS, they will however put a label on the cutout (on new supplies) saying its separate neutral earth. Do you tick TNS on the cert?, you don't know  whats going on under the road, even if its an old PILC, if they have to do a joint, they'll put neutral to earth.

Then you get the whole PNB debate where the place *is* on its own transformer, had a discussion with on site maintance on an industrial site about this, he was worried about car chargers on some of their buildings because its PNB on some of their transformers, my view was that its still TNS, its separate from where you first tie down the stair point to physical earth and certainly doesn't come with the risks, that PME throught a housing estate does....

The only other place I've encounted the needs to be guarenteed TNS requirement is for petrol filling stations.

Few things that I've never yet worked out:

1) Why does the design of electric vehiles have to be such that the CPC of the supply point is connected to the vehile bodywork, could we not just have the wiring in the car effectivly class 2, and the output of the charging circuit in the car electrically separate?

2) Why do we worry about EVs or portable office cabins on TNCS, yet we are perectly happy to connect lighting columns to it (providing we meet some minimum sizing on the cpc)?

3) Why is TT so quickly pushed as the solution, I've seen more cases of dangerous conditions cause by a fault to earth on TT where for various reasons an RCD did not operature than I have of a dangerous voltage on metalwork off a TNCS system, in fact about the only time i've seen the latter (sufficient enough to give someone a shock) it was caused by the former in an adjacent property on a rural distribution network*

The fault path back to the neutral side of the transformer was driving a current through the DNO earth electrodes (which was only 2 seemingly poor rods, on at tx, one at end of run - the consumer side was a better electrode, being a metallic framed barn). This created a voltage drop across the DNO electrodes, meaning there was 190v between the neutral at the transformer and the physical earth, the same neutral which then provided a PME earth* in an another property which pulled alll the radiators upto 190v above the concreate floor below

*It actually wouldn't have mattered in this instance if it had been true TNS over PME, the ground potential had been displaced from that of the stair point of the transformer

 
they will however put a label on the cutout (on new supplies) saying its separate neutral earth. Do you tick TNS on the cert?, you don't know  whats going on under the road, even if its an old PILC, if they have to do a joint, they'll put neutral to earth.


Checking the cut-out at a job few a weeks ago, where a couple of years back they'd had a the incoming cable replaced and a new external meter box fitted.

(CU was still under the stairs cupboard).. anyway..

as you say Western power had labelled up the cut out with an SNE sticker.

CUTOUT2.JPG

Guinness

 
Yeah thats the exact label I had in mind, its western power here as well, are you in the old mids elec board area? or one of WPDs other areas down south?

 
Apparently we are all over complicating this? According to the BBC you just run a lead out to the vehicle and plug it in if you’re parked on the street?? Oh one bit of their advice is to make sure you cover the cable H&S and all that! 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54989167
well, yes you can just plug in a granny charger

as for covering a cable in a public space .... the BBC reporter needs educating ....

 
With all the articles flying around about EV chargers...

they rarely seem to quote how many miles of range you can get per hour of charge..

Sure I read somewhere that a bog-standard 13A socket is typically between 6 to 10 miles per hour of charge..

other higher power domestic chargers (32A), were around 20 to 30 miles per hour of charge...

Can't remember where I read it though..?

BUT..  this sort of info is what I would want to know..

So I could have some idea about how long my car would need to be re-charging for so I could get home safely...

e.g. eldest daughter lives approx 110 miles away.. typically 2hrs journey

youngest son lives approx 160 miles away.. typically 3hrs journey

So if I want to do a round trip without recharging I'd need to know how long I need to be charging for to get 220 or 320miles range..

 
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