Any Thoughts On This Earthing Problem ?

[Evans Electric]

A few years ago we rewired house for a good customer in Sutton Coldfield, an area known for  poor earthing on the network.

We applied for a PME but it was turned down .

After spending a day knocking rods in all over the front garden and getting  no readings whatsoever , even with four looped together , two rods at 4 mtrs deep we gave up on that idea .

I decided to use the cable sheath anyway , Ze  14 hms ,  and fitted a downstream RCD  rated at 100mA.   I have pictures somewhere. 

Anyway , British Gas have been there trying to solve a problem with the boiler cutting out .  He's told customer he's taken reading of  200 hms    but expected only 100 hms    No idea what he was testing !!!     But I think he's seen the DNO's sticker on the cut-out and is using it as an excuse to  let someone else sort it. 

I will return anyway and check that theres still a  Ze  on the sheath which I'm using as a TT system.

Any thoughts ? 

 

[Steve3948]

Could you not have put a earth mat down or run earth tape, expensive though, installed this on MOD camps where it was chalk a foot down.

 

[Evans Electric]

This is the set up after we fitted the RCD , I couldn't see a problem with using the cable sheath as the TT connection when rods do not work .

Could you not have put a earth mat down or run earth tape, expensive though, installed this on MOD camps where it was chalk a foot down.

I think its something to do with the soil Steve ,  I don't think a mat would work either but if the cable sheath reading has deteriorated we'll have to do something.   Theres a sticker on the cut out saying "Not to be used for a PME connection"

 

[steptoe]

dunno Deke,

even on the Isle of Man which is pure slate Ive always got sub 200 by the 3rd rod at 4m .

you're willing to borrow my rod tester if its any help,

it lets you find the best/if its feasible place for putting rods, (before you bang them in), it also lets you work out if you need to go deeper or further apart.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks for that offer Stepps , I really appreciate that :Salute     

My usual method is to bang one in, read the Ze  with the loop impedance tester  and keep trying .   I'll see after I've been back to re-check the present reading .

 

[Evans Electric]

Called in there today ...connected the Loop tester to the cable sheath terminal ....  red light comes on telling me not to test so the cable sheath earthing has deteriorated  .

I'm wondering about the rest of the road ...guessing they're all the same .

 

[MeFil]

Ive got friends who live out in sutton and they none of the houses around them have a decent earth.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Ive got friends who live out in sutton and they none of the houses around them have a decent earth.

Well that shrub looks like its doing ok :B-

 

[Evans Electric]

Ive got friends who live out in sutton and they none of the houses around them have a decent earth.

Yes  we know there is a problem in the whole area ,  PME was refused .

 

[Sidewinder]

If they originally provided an earth, then they have a statute law responsibility to maintain it.

If they fail then they are breaking the law, and can be subjected to the wrath of the HSE & FFI etc.

ESQCR.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks for that Sidey , I've logged that away , that will come in useful.   On this job there was nothing there when we rewired a few years back ,  most of this area has dodgey earthing TBH .

I asked for PME , they investigated  and stickered he cut out ,  "Do not PME  this cable"    As I said , rod didn't work so we used the cable sheath @ 14 hms  

........now tester refuses to test so we're going there next week . 

I know there is a redundant length of lead water pipe in the ground about 5m  long  we may be using that for an earth electrode .

I'm considering writing to their councillor  as this is a long road and I'm guessing a lot of houses will have no earth until an electrician goes there. 

 

[Sidewinder]

Don't bother with the councillor, knock a few doors do a few tests foc, and then report them th HSE, that will wake them up.

Why should they get away with breaking the law?

 

[Evans Electric]

Dunno Sidey ,   we've all known for years  that theres an earthing problem in that area ......they'll do PME if possible , otherwise its down to your electrician .   These are posh houses Sidey ... they'll probably phone the cops if we start doing that.   

 

[Sidewinder]

What you mean ensuring that their installation is safe without charging them?

Are you now under WPD?

Were you before?

Things may well change if you are now in a WPD area.

 

[apprentice87]

Hi all,

Further to Sideys comments with reference to the ESQCR and the DUTY to maintain earth connections, we have this little passage;

(4) Unless he can reasonably conclude that it is inappropriate for reasons of safety, a

distributor shall, when providing a new connection at low voltage, make available his supply

neutral conductor or, if appropriate, the protective conductor of his network for connection to

the protective conductor of the consumer’s installation.

(5) In this regulation the expression “new connection” means the first electric line, or the

replacement of an existing electric line, to one or more consumer’s installations.

This to me, reads that unless you have a caravan or boat, they WILL be supplying you with a TNCS connection, [unless they want, as Paul has pointed out, to incur the wrath of the HSE etc.......]

john...

 

[Steve3948]

All well and good on paper but in reality its a different matter.

I had an installation where the installation had label over saying "Not to be used as PME" which was odd as the reading was below 0.35.

On contacting and giving them the Quality of Service Jargon, I was informed that the integraty of the current system could not be relied on and they would contact me in the future should the situation change. In other words put a rod in.

 

[apprentice87]

HI Steve,

Never mind "quality of service" the ESQCR is law. Just tell them that you want this "cannot be relied on" stuff in writing, as you need to forward it to the HSE as Paul said....

john...

 

[Sharpend]

Will they know paul?

 

[Sidewinder]

One or two may!

 

[Evans Electric]

What you mean ensuring that their installation is safe without charging them?

Are you now under WPD?

Were you before?

Things may well change if you are now in a WPD area.

What does WPD mean  Sidey  ?