boilers and minor works Certs

[Dave the rave]

Hi wondering if anybody could help me?

I'm connecting up combination boilers and the odd y plan for a local council I'm doing around 4-6 a day, there asking me to supply a minor works cert for each one, but sum properties have very old ccu's where there is no rcd present and undersized main bonds, so what I'm doing is I'm writing in the departures fuseboard needs upgrading to the 17th edition with bonds aswell, what's the easiest way to make that minor works cert comply with the 17th or can I pass it off as a 16th edition , I did mentioned to the client about making the spur a rcd spur, but is it good to put a boiler on a rcd? Any sort of help would be appreciated,

 

[NozSpark]

Dave,

You will only need an RCD if the work that you are doing requires one, i.e. burried cables, socket, TT installation or a requirement of the manufacturers instructions.

As for the departures, you have a requirement under the regs to ensure that what you are connecting to is safe as well as esuring that your addition is also safe.

 

[welchyboy]

by undersized do you mean 6mm...these may well be fine...as for RCD for heating controls, have you chased anything in or are you just using existing supply spurs etc?

You cannot use the departures box to list things like 'needs 17th ed board', if what you have done requires RCD protection then you should be installing it

 

[PC Electrics]

And Goldspark wonders why sparks are undervalued!

Pay peanuts - get monkeys

use monkeys - pay peanuts.

It's a vicious circle.

 

[Sidewinder]

Clients will almost always only pay for Monkeys, so you can't blame them for taking the work.

Blame the clients for not wanting to pay a reasonable rate.

 

[betty swollocks]

The problem you have

Is all that will happen should you feel the need to highlight any deficiencies and suggest remedial work is that at some council level YOU will be discussed and your services quickly dispensed with

You may be right however money is the bottom line

Another monkey will be roped in and he is likely to do the same as you, work a few weeks before having this discussion, he will be replaced and so on and so on until, guess what, council has fulfilled its obligations for minimum cost, maybe even enough money left to buy another bin man an iPad!

Working for councils is like sitting in a tree full of monkeys

The ones at the top look down and all they see is monkeys

The ones at the bottom look up and just see @rse holes

 

[Doc Hudson]

Like for like replacements or new wiring? New domestic central heating control wiring is also notifiable under part P. If any bad stuff hits the fan remember who has signed the declaration on the certificates. Those dishing out the work will have a piece of paper putting the blame fully in your court I would suspect.

Doc H.

 

[Dave the rave]

Bloody hell Alot of good replies thanks for the help, I like the monkeys in a tree part the best .. Lol

 

[springcrocus]

Working for councils is like sitting in a tree full of monkeysThe ones at the top look down and all they see is monkeys

The ones at the bottom look up and just see @rse holes

Nice one, Betty, and so true. Funniest thing I've read for ages. ROTFWL ROTFWL

 

[professional]

Hi wondering if anybody could help me? I'm connecting up combination boilers and the odd y plan for a local council I'm doing around 4-6 a day, there asking me to supply a minor works cert for each one, but sum properties have very old ccu's where there is no rcd present and undersized main bonds, so what I'm doing is I'm writing in the departures fuseboard needs upgrading to the 17th edition with bonds aswell, what's the easiest way to make that minor works cert comply with the 17th or can I pass it off as a 16th edition , I did mentioned to the client about making the spur a rcd spur, but is it good to put a boiler on a rcd? Any sort of help would be appreciated,

As the "competent person" carrying out the work you should already be aware of the requirements of Part P / BS7671 and be able to fill in both MW and EIC`s as appropriate as this is (supposedly) a pre-requisite for Scheme registration - so I find the questions that you ask rather confusing ....

 

[Dave the rave]

Thanks also for the reply mr professional, this is why I don't go on this site as much as I would like too because of the bitchy replies I get back, you must either live on your own or you must have a major chip on your shoulder and think your the nuts. oh and thanks for the help you gave me on my question,

 

[Manator]

I feel that I must come to the defence of those who replied to your question, posts 2 and 3 gave some very good advice that you have refused to answer, however my main concern is the fact that you also stated in your question "should I pass it off as 16th edition".

In one of your earlier threads you asked if sticking a rod in near the meter and bonding the gas meters to this was OK, obviously a lack of earthing arrangements and ignorance of the dangers of this shows a lack of basic knowledge. Our members will give advise but will not be able to tell you how to do your work unless they themselves have seen the installation.

I think any electrician should sit down and ask themselves am I competent? It is what a court will decide if anything goes belly up.

 

[green-hornet]

Hi wondering if anybody could help me? I'm connecting up combination boilers and the odd y plan for a local council I'm doing around 4-6 a day, there asking me to supply a minor works cert for each one all works should have a minor works certificate, or EIC, but sum properties have very old ccu's where there is no rcd present and undersized main bonds, so what I'm doing is I'm writing in the departures fuseboard needs upgrading to the 17th edition with bonds aswell,Why would the boards need updating? Have you tested them and found faults? what's the easiest way to make that minor works cert comply with the 17th or can I pass it off as a 16th edition ,Are you being serious here? I did mentioned to the client about making the spur a rcd spur, but is it good to put a boiler on a rcd?If you updated the boards to dual RCD units, would the boiler now be on a RCD Any sort of help would be appreciated,

See my red above, it is all the help I can give.

 

[Ash]

I kinda feel sorry for heating engineers, there was one I work for who always gets me to come in and provide him his FCU for his boilers, but that's expense he now has to charge for everytime he wants a spur, just so he can conform with Part P. Where as in reality he could just put a plug on the end of it and connect it to any socket. He even has a multifunction megger, but since Part P it's too much hassle for him.

I respect him a lot for paying what he does to have it done so he complies completely.

 

[andy_spark]

Hi wondering if anybody could help me? I'm connecting up combination boilers and the odd y plan for a local council I'm doing around 4-6 a day, there asking me to supply a minor works cert for each one, but sum properties have very old ccu's where there is no rcd present and undersized main bonds, so what I'm doing is I'm writing in the departures fuseboard needs upgrading to the 17th edition with bonds aswell, what's the easiest way to make that minor works cert comply with the 17thDo whatever work is required to make the installation/circuit comply with the 17th edition or can I pass it off as a 16th edition , I did mentioned to the client about making the spur a rcd spur, but is it good to put a boiler on a rcd? Any sort of help would be appreciated,

My comment in red

 

[professional]

I kinda feel sorry for heating engineers, there was one I work for who always gets me to come in and provide him his FCU for his boilers, but that's expense he now has to charge for everytime he wants a spur, just so he can conform with Part P. Where as in reality he could just put a plug on the end of it and connect it to any socket. He even has a multifunction megger, but since Part P it's too much hassle for him.I respect him a lot for paying what he does to have it done so he complies completely.

But this would not comply with the requirements of Part P as it it still notifiable, even if it is plugged into a socket outlet.

He either wants to comply or he doesn`t.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:08 ----------

Thanks also for the reply mr professional, this is why I don't go on this site as much as I would like too because of the bitchy replies I get back, you must either live on your own or you must have a major chip on your shoulder and think your the nuts. oh and thanks for the help you gave me on my question,

No - just a trained, qualified and EXPERIENCED tradesman - nothing more....

I think that what we are losing sight of is the fact that if an individual is not capable of doing the job they should not have been deemed competent in the first place - all the rest is just P&W from the artificial Part P "industry".

 

[Steve3948]

Central Heating = Part P

New Heating Circuit = EIC not MW

Comments should not be what needs to be done but what does not comply to current regulations.

 

[professional]

Central Heating = Part PNew Heating Circuit = EIC not MW

Comments should not be what needs to be done but what does not comply to current regulations.

Would you like the expand on this?

 

[Steve3948]

Well if you look at the list of notifiable items for Part P, Heating Controls are listed.

Regarding the installation, if its a new circuit back to the fuseboard, then Installation Certificate along with Part P.

If existing supply being re-used then Minor Works Certificate along with Part P.

I found earthing normally needed upgrading also again included on the above.

We did around 700 over 4 years for local council, sub contract through plumbing company and it used to take a whole day per month just doing the certs and p's.

:yawn

 

[safedepth]

Well if you look at the list of notifiable items for Part P, Heating Controls are listed.Regarding the installation, if its a new circuit back to the fuseboard, then Installation Certificate along with Part P.

If existing supply being re-used then Minor Works Certificate along with Part P.

I found earthing normally needed upgrading also again included on the above.

We did around 700 over 4 years for local council, sub contract through plumbing company and it used to take a whole day per month just doing the certs and p's.

:yawn

Steve, I'm a little confused, are you referring to the notification to your body, (NIC, Nappit, BSA etc) when you say Part P. As I'm sure you know Part P is a building Reg and nothing else. You can't notify Part P, you can't sign a Part P you can simply comply with Part P.