BS7671 history and the future?...

[Sidewinder]

One of my network has prepared this as an overview for his senior management team, and offered to share it.

I checked and it's OK for me to post it here.

Some may learn something from it.

If there are any questions on the points raised in the 18th DPC then I can answer them from what I know of the publically available information.

If you can't view the PowerPoint show then I will upload a pdf of it shortly.

pdf done.

View attachment 18th_edition_widescreen_rev_3_-_PM.ppsx

View attachment 18th edition widescreen rev 3 - PM.pdf

 

[Lurch]

All installations will fail EICRs!

Not really no.

 

[Sidewinder]

Not really no.

Quote something right out of context why don't you!

 

[Murdoch]

"Cause change fatigue across the industry"

thats a bit of an understatement IMHO. 

I do do wonder how many sparks fall off the bandwagon each time seemingly senseless, I'll thought out changes are forced on us.....

madness

all these people think about is change for profits sake, and that's their profit, not ours ......

 

[Lurch]

Quote something right out of context why don't you!

What?

In what context do you think I might have quoted it from?

I do do wonder how many sparks fall off the bandwagon each time seemingly senseless, I'll thought out changes are forced on us.....

As in retire, or go underground?

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for posting. An excellent summary.

The obvious question is WHY will all installations fail an EICR? Will the new version of regs insist on compliance with every aspect of the current regs or it's a fail?  That will go down like a lead baloon.

And if that is the case, then in order to do ANY work and issue an EIC or MWC will every installation have to be brought up to the standard to meet current regs?  Yes sir I can fit a new socket, that will be £500 please because so much else needs updating to do that.

 

[Evans Electric]

On a scale of  1 to 10   my  excitement in viewing  the proposed changes  to the Regs  has risen to  0  .

Only two things stuck in my ancient brain ,   the introduction of these ARC devices .   After 50 yrs in the trade  I wonder how we managed without them .   :C

Bashing earth rods in  at EVERY installation ......... what does that tell us ....the  network earthing is breaking down  ...( Well it  is in the area I generally work )  so the customer  will be paying to fortify the networks I presume .   ( Stand by for loads of rods bashed into  service cables) 

I,ve already forgotten the rest of it . ......but the smell lingers  .   

Edit :    I should add  a big thank you to Sidewinder  for taking trouble to post all that though .    :Salute

 

[Sidewinder]

OK, lets start here.

Who has gone through the 18th DPC?

Next, who commented?

 

[Lurch]

Who has gone through the 18th DPC?

I had a look, didn't read it in any detail.

who commented?

Why bother. Not going to make any difference, they haven't really listened to anyone before, and the last rounds of changes and amendments seem to indicate they are just doing what they want rather than getting together and fixing the industry.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

I did read through quite a bit

Went on holiday for 3 and 1/2 weeks at start of august intending to comment while away, even took lappy and byb.

Didn't get time, or indeed internet connection, to comment unfortunately. 

 

[Badger]

It'll just mean less work being done by consumers 

 

[Lurch]

It'll just mean less work being done by consumers 

Have you even got any idea what the 18th edition is, or what consumers means, or anything at all?

Part p was supposed to stop consumers/DIYers and unregistered people doing electrical work. It didn't.

How is a new version of the regulations going to make the slightest bit of difference?

 

[Sidewinder]

...

Why bother. Not going to make any difference, they haven't really listened to anyone before, and the last rounds of changes and amendments seem to indicate they are just doing what they want rather than getting together and fixing the industry.

That is where you are wrong, and is EXACTLY why they do what they want, because there are too many sparks like you who shout your mouth off but are not prepared to actually do anything about the state of the industry, and are just to apathetic to be bothered.

If you don't vote, don't complain about who wins the election and forms the government.

 

[Lurch]

That is where you are wrong, and is EXACTLY why they do what they want,

There you go, I knew you wanted to say that.

there are too many sparks like you who shout your mouth off but are not prepared to actually do anything about the state of the industry, and are just to apathetic to be bothered. If you don't vote, don't complain about who wins the election and forms the government.

That's not it at all. There is no way do you think that we (normal everyday electricians) influence anything in any BSI publication. If I/we would have added some feedback do you think they would have decided not to bother with certain parts of it? There was even more uproar when part p came out, everyone had a say, everyone knew it was a bad idea. Still nothing has been done about it, fair enough it is unlikely it will ever go but it hasn't even been fixed. There is zero chance that anyone involved in making the regulations would listen to anything an ordinary electrician would have to say.

 

[Sidewinder]

Well, Lurch, once again you are wrong.

All of the scams wanted comment from the rank and file, because they only have one "vote" on each reg, regardless of how many members they have, so if every electrician in the country made comment, they would have to take note.

So, if all of the scams are against one single reg, then that reg will only get the scams commenting against it, regardless of their number of members.

If 100 sparks also comment then that carries as much, if not more weight.

I don't know much about standards making processes, I was told I didn't know enough in an interview recently.

What I do know is that they are legally bound to take note of comments that are made.

Hence why the procedure is known as a Draft for Public Comment.

There you go, I knew you wanted to say that.

...

WFT is that supposed to mean you cheeky ****?

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks for posting. An excellent summary.

The obvious question is WHY will all installations fail an EICR? Will the new version of regs insist on compliance with every aspect of the current regs or it's a fail?  That will go down like a lead baloon.

And if that is the case, then in order to do ANY work and issue an EIC or MWC will every installation have to be brought up to the standard to meet current regs?  Yes sir I can fit a new socket, that will be £500 please because so much else needs updating to do that.

If the board needs changing and they haven't got bonding in place it could easily be £500 for a socket under the 17th edition

 

[ProDave]

If the board needs changing and they haven't got bonding in place it could easily be £500 for a socket under the 17th edition

Yes, but under 17th you don't have to upgrade the whole board, fitting an rcbo, or even an rdc in a separate pod will do to upgrade just the circuit you are modifying.

The statement "all installs will fail an EICR" seems to have some implication that the new version of the regs WILL be retrospective, so now adding one extra socket, you don't just have to upgrade the circuit you are modifying, you have to add rcd protection to everything including the lighting (so now that really is new CU not just add an rcd) and all the other new bits like bang a rod in to supliment a TNCS supply.

It all hinges on what that person meant (and what made him believe it) when he said "All installs will fail an EICR"

I await clarification.

OK, lets start here.

Who has gone through the 18th DPC?

Next, who commented?

I did not even know the DPC was out there to be read and commented on.

This forum has commented on snippets of what people think might be in the 18th., but I don't recall reading a post saying "here is the 18th DPC  go and read it and comment on it"  Previous amendment DPC's have been linked to and commented on extensively.

Perhaps the forum did post it and I missed it, but that would be the sort of thread that would go on and on and be very busy so I don't think I missed it?

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Its here Dave 

 

[Murdoch]

Yes, but under 17th you don't have to upgrade the whole board, fitting an rcbo, or even an rdc in a separate pod will do to upgrade just the circuit you are modifying.

There are installations where you HAVE no option but to change the CU.

Does the 18th say you HAVE to change the CU?

I have commented on a few aspects of the proposed changes - not had any feedback as yet.................. I doubt they will even consider our views .........

 

[ProDave]

Its here Dave 

Thanks. My bad for missing that thread.  Looks like it's too late to download the DPC now?

NO mention on that thread about new regs being retrospective, so WHERE has this "ALL installs will fail an EICR" come from then?  That's what I am trying to understand, is it true or just that one person thinks it's true?