Changing economy 7 storage heaters to normal electric radiators

[DaveS79]

Hello all

Checked out job today. Woman wants to replace her broken storage heaters with electric radiators which she has already purchased. Had a previous electrician check it out and say it can't be done. I think it can but just want to check would be approaching it right. I've included 2 photos of board and schedule. As you'll see from photo it's a dual supplied board. The right hand side being the one storage heaters are on. I haven't got much experience of economy 7 or dual supply so don't shoot me down and couldn't gain access to electric storage cupboard it's an old residential block of flats. I got there at 4 o clock and there was power present at storage heaters. Should this be the case if it is a genuine economy 7 set up? I thought the power to this side should only be kicking in at off peak times. She also reported although not 100% convinced that the storage were just coming on at all random times of day. My options as I see it is if can be sure this isn't an off peak supply I can just utilise the storage heater supplies for the new rads or if it's even possible disconnect the off peak supply at fuse board and link out the main supply side to the off peak. Any advice, things not considering appreciated.

 

[Sharpend]

Never mind the install I like the fact that this MT person works back in time. 
he tested it in 09 and next one is due in 05 :C  maybe he only comes back every 96 years?? 

 

[Murdoch]

Never mind the install I like the fact that this MT person works back in time. 
he tested it in 09 and next one is due in 05 :C  maybe he only comes back every 96 years?? 

He tested it in '99 !

Back to the OP

I've seen E7 coming on during the day - so be very careful .............. because the time it came on I was doing an EICR on the E7 circuits !

Is that a CU mounted in the wall ? I would suggest more investigation is required before committing to anything as those Crabtree boards aren't as easy to adapt as many others and then there is the lack of RCD protection

 

[Sharpend]

I would say that 1) you need to clarify if it is on an economy supply. 
if it is then, she’ll need to inform supplier that she no longer needs/wants it. 
you would then need to reconfigure the Cu and probably adding in an rcd or two. Be careful of the mfr police as you are now modifying the CU, alternatively you could offer to change the board and bring it up to date as a package job? 

He tested it in '99 !

You sure his first 9 looks nothing like his second 9 

 

[Murdoch]

You sure his first 9 looks nothing like his second 9 

His zeros don't look consistent either

 

[ProDave]

If BOTH peak and off peak are in the same CU then it seems there are only in fact two storage heaters?

What has got my "odd ometer" alert is the relatively new incoming brown and blue tails to the off peak main switch. I would want to understand what exactly has been done to that quite recently.

In principle you just need to henley the peak and off peak supplies onto one one 24/7 supply after the DN0/ energy supplier has swapped the supply to a single rate supply.  You can then argue whether connecting it to a new supply triggers the need for an RCD if you are not otherwise altering the circuit other than changing one fixed (storage) heater for a diferent fixed non storage heater.

If you decide it needs RCD protection it would be pretty warped thinking to have RCD's on the newly converted heater circuits but nothing else, so if you think that is needed then I would suggest a new CU so everything has rcd protection.

If the storage heaters were on at 4PM it might be on E10 which has an afternoon boost as well.  Can you post a picture of the meter and any DNO time switches?

 

[DaveS79]

Never mind the install I like the fact that this MT person works back in time. 
he tested it in 09 and next one is due in 05 :C  maybe he only comes back every 96 years?? 

He tested it in '99 !

Back to the OP

I've seen E7 coming on during the day - so be very careful .............. because the time it came on I was doing an EICR on the E7 circuits !

Is that a CU mounted in the wall ? I would suggest more investigation is required before committing to anything as those Crabtree boards aren't as easy to adapt as many others and then there is the lack of RCD protection

It is Murdoch. It's prehistoric mate. Most of the circuits are in piro so any potential board change could be a total pain. Where the rcd protection is concerned if the the change from storage heaters to new rads is just utilising existing wiring it's like for like isn't it so lack of rcd protection isn't an issue is it?

I would say that 1) you need to clarify if it is on an economy supply. 
if it is then, she’ll need to inform supplier that she no longer needs/wants it. 
you would then need to reconfigure the Cu and probably adding in an rcd or two. Be careful of the mfr police as you are now modifying the CU, alternatively you could offer to change the board and bring it up to date as a package job? 

You sure his first 9 looks nothing like his second 9 

 Sharpend I think possibility of the board change is beyond my skills if honest as most circuits piro and board recessed in wall would be a job and half and even if she could find someone I imagine the bill would be pretty hefty. If she did get the economy 7 supply clarified and ditched by supplier I hear you about the mf police but is it plausible that supply side of main switch could be doubled up and supplied to off peak supply side as don't see any other option of this board to supply these breakers and all the others are already being utilised 

 

[DaveS79]

If BOTH peak and off peak are in the same CU then it seems there are only in fact two storage heaters?

What has got my "odd ometer" alert is the relatively new incoming brown and blue tails to the off peak main switch. I would want to understand what exactly has been done to that quite recently.

In principle you just need to henley the peak and off peak supplies onto one one 24/7 supply after the DN0/ energy supplier has swapped the supply to a single rate supply.  You can then argue whether connecting it to a new supply triggers the need for an RCD if you are not otherwise altering the circuit other than changing one fixed (storage) heater for a diferent fixed non storage heater.

If you decide it needs RCD protection it would be pretty warped thinking to have RCD's on the newly converted heater circuits but nothing else, so if you think that is needed then I would suggest a new CU so everything has rcd protection.

If the storage heaters were on at 4PM it might be on E10 which has an afternoon boost as well.  Can you post a picture of the meter and any DNO time switches?

Thanks for detailed reply Dave. I couldn't unfortunately get access to distribution cupboards. It's an old 50's council block and to get access in there needs to be pre arranged. I don't think I have much other choice than to try to get access and get client to change over to single supply. Gonna be a pain this one I think but poor cow is either going to pay a small fortune for board change and possible part rewire or live without any heating.

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for detailed reply Dave. I couldn't unfortunately get access to distribution cupboards. It's an old 50's council block and to get access in there needs to be pre arranged. I don't think I have much other choice than to try to get access and get client to change over to single supply. Gonna be a pain this one I think but poor cow is either going to pay a small fortune for board change and possible part rewire or live without any heating.

Ah so the rate switching and metering is remote, with two supplies up to the flat.

I would still love to know what's with the new brown and blue meter tails to the off peak side. What has changed from the original setup?

 

[DaveS79]

Ah so the rate switching and metering is remote, with two supplies up to the flat.

I would still love to know what's with the new brown and blue meter tails to the off peak side. What has changed from the original setup?

There has definately been a change there pretty recently. Will delve into it and post an update here