Changing The Bell Box

[Stormbringer]

Hi All,

My house alarm external siren stop working and I went to purchase a new siren, this company didn't have a siren to suit as this box was fitted back in the late1980's and convinced me to buy a new box.

I came to fit it today, took the old one down fitted the new one and then came to wire it in.....

I took photos of the wiring so not to make an error.

The old box had two wires going to the after market strobe.

Then on the board the terminals had

Tamp 2 wires to micro switch

Bell 2 wires to the Siren

T - yellow

A - blue

B - black

C + empty

D + red

  -  -         -   -   -  +   +     - +           

TAMP      T  A  B  C  D    BELL

the Texecom Box had and I wired as below

  MSW         Strb     Ov    Tmp        Bell       +12V

2         1          S        D       C            B             A

2  1 were pre-wired

S  Green   (for strobe)

D  Red

C  Yellow (tamper)

B   Black  (Bell)

A   Blue   (+12V)

When came to set and test the alarm I cannot set it, I just have the Tamper light showing on the control panel.

as you can tell there is no T on the new box where the yellow wire fitted so i had a guess at C but this doesn't work.

The system worked perfectly except for no external Siren so I'm thinking it must be this Yellow wire causing the problem.

There is a area on the board next to the terminals that could have more terminals fitted (maybe the next model) on the board it reads

Fault relay, Tamper Relay and Test with a T underneath so maybe my yellow wire should have fitted here?

I hope you can understand the above and can give me some advice on what to do next.

Thanks it advance to any posts.

 

[Andy™]

different manufacturers use different lettering for their equipment. i.e a in their panel to a on their bellbox. changing to a different make does not mean a to a... for a start, you have a lot more than just the yellow wrong, but without the full description of exactly what the old connections were other than just a letter, its not easy to say what should be where... to start with, a in the new box should probably be red not blue...

good thing its only 12v and not something that will kill you when you just guess the connections and hope for the best...

 

[Manator]

One of the main problems with alarm systems is that not all installers use a set code for colours. in the instructions you received with the new bell box you would have wiring instructions for differing types of systems.

 

[kerching]

Assuming it is an Odyssey texecom box......just google texecoms site and there is a list of connections for most systems....also,this is usually in the instruction book as well

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

As has been said there is no standard colour code or letter configuration for intruder alarm panels, but it is NOT a case of guess, its relatively easy.

The sounder you have is NOT designed to go onto your panel. What you have is the latest all singing all dancing latest regulation compliant bell box.

It is meant for a panel more sophisticated than yours, in that it can signal various faults. That said, I don't see too much of a problem connecting it to your old panel, (But a different sounder would be easier) what you need to do is read the instructions / connection configuration for your new sounder.

Without the instructions for your new sounder no one can help, :Blushing

 

[binky]

unless you complete the tamper circuit with 2 wires you will always have a problem

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Did you use a meter to check what actual voltages were one each wire before and after... 

As Andy points out you from your post you appear to have reversed some polarities..?

e.g.

"A" was a negative Blue, which you now say is (+12v)

"D" was a positive Red, which you now say is an (0v)  ?????

you haven't popped any internal fuses have you?

:C

T - yellow

A - blue

B - black

C + empty

D + red

  -  -         -   -   -  +   +     - +           

TAMP      T  A  B  C  D    BELL

the Texecom Box had and I wired as below

  MSW         Strb     Ov    Tmp        Bell       +12V

2         1          S        D       C            B             A

2  1 were pre-wired

S  Green   (for strobe)

D  Red

C  Yellow (tamper)

B   Black  (Bell)

A   Blue   (+12V)

 

[Stormbringer]

Sorry I didn't realise that there is no standard for manufacturers.

The instructions say

A  (12V)     Permanent Positive Supply

B  (Bell)     Negative Applied Output to Activate Siren

C  (Tamp)  Negative Removed on Tamper Input

D  (0V)       Permanent Negative Supply

S  (Strb)     Negative Applied Output to Activate Strobe

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

unless you complete the tamper circuit with 2 wires you will always have a problem

Sorry to say this, but that is not true where the sounder is concerned.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Exactly what alarm panel do you have ?

Sorry to say this, but that is not true where the sounder is concerned.

Why do you have to always confuse things, if you were any sort of electrician you would know you have to have a circuit to make something work, so that comment is worthless especially to a diy-er

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

If you wire it as shown in the colours shown it should work. (Yes ok, the  actual colours do not matter but it is easier for you)

Panel       Sounder

A               A

D               D

B               B

C               C

S               S

The white wire you have left, (and any others) you just leave it "floating" (Not connected to anything at either end)

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Why do you have to always confuse things, if you were any sort of electrician you would know you have to have a circuit to make something work, so that comment is worthless especially to a diy-er

That is the sort of comment I would expect from some one who thinks too much like an electrician.

I am not wanting to argue, but I shall explain how it is done in an alarm panel.

+ve

-ve supply

2 wires Obvioulsy

Ringer. (makes sounder sound) you would call this the switched wire (Its a switched negative not a live or +Ve)

Strobe (makes strobe flash) you would call this the switched wire (Its a switched negative not a live or +Ve)

Tamper (tells the panel all is well)

So far we have used 4 wires, or 2 pairs, so you would assume that as this is the tamper it must use a pair of wires. It doesn't. It is infact a switched -ve  from the sounder to the panel.

Now if you count the number of wires used it is 5 not 4 or 6, so the tamper is NOT using a dedicated pair of wires, it is just a switch wire. You also can NOT get a closed circuit between this and any other wire as although is a switch wire there are often a transistor or two in the way.

So my point is, that it is misleading to say to a diy person that the sounder tamper must have two wires, because it doesn't have two wires, so they could end up looking for something that is just not there.

All a diy person wants to know, is what colour wire to connect to what terminal.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Who said its a dedicated pair of wires. ALL circuits need a feed and a return ( to give it some sort of terminology)  thats why its called a circuit. I could argue the odd cable is the + or -  for both the strobe & sounder both of which need 2 connections although they share a common one.

 

[Stormbringer]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your input.

I have wired the box as you suggested but when I looked at the board I have

  +  -          T     A         D          B

Strobe        SCB            BELL

                                    +           -

No C anywhere

I also have Jumpers on the box that maybe need attention

Battery

on/off position

SAB/SCB position

LC

on/off position

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Sorry for the delay, I have not been able to get to a pc. X(

I confess. I misunderstood, I took a post you made earlier to be that of the sounder connections in the sounder.

I need to know what the sounder connection info is. The SAB/SCB link means  self contained bell or self activating bell, the battery on / off is self explanatory no idea what LC is for.

To be honest although it probably will work on your panel, I would suggest that the sounder you have is of too higher grade than your panel needs, and as such will be a PITA.

I see you have several options.

1) Take it back and get a lower grade sounder

2) Put it up on an auction site for sale

3) Keep and admire it (dust it occasionally)

4) Post its instruction manual on this forum (or find a link to it)

I don't know how much you paid, but I looked on google and found This one for £24 its a lower grade than the one you have and as such, less grief.

 

[Stormbringer]

Hi Richard

I paid £30 for it.

Below are the instructions from the wiring Bell Box Manual

A  (12V)     Permanent Positive Supply

B  (Bell)     Negative Applied Output to Activate Siren

C  (Tamp)  Negative Removed on Tamper Input

D  (0V)       Permanent Negative Supply

S  (Strb)     Negative Applied Output to Activate Strobe

I can't believe this is being a pain to sort out lol

What I have done is taken the old circuit board out of the old bell box re-wired as it was before and for the time being placed it within the new box.

The alarm system works as before but without the external siren and strobe but the internal siren is loud enough to wake us up or if you are in the street you can hear it.

This will do until I can get someone in to sort the problem out.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to trying to sort my problem out.

Regards

Stormbringer

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Did you actually try correcting the apparent reversal of +/- 12v as highlighted by Andy in post #2 and myself in post #7  ??

:C

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Sounder:

A  (12V)     Permanent Positive Supply

B  (Bell)     Negative Applied Output to Activate Siren

C  (Tamp)  Negative Removed on Tamper Input

D  (0V)       Permanent Negative Supply

S  (Strb)     Negative Applied Output to Activate Strobe

Panel:

Strb     Ov    Tmp        Bell       +12V

With the sounder connections listed on the left, and the panel connections listed on the right, in the colour of the text I would suggest the following.

A 12v

B  Bell

C  Tamp

D  Ov

S  Strb

You should also check that the SAB / SCB link is in the SAB position, and the battery link is in the ON position. Also after you connect both ends check the bell fuse in the panel, don't look at it, take it out and meter it, or put in another fuse of the same rating

You could also check that you have 12v across Ov and 12v in the panel with a meter, you have a meter haven't you?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

You could also check that you have 12v across Ov and 12v in the panel with a meter, you have a meter haven't you?

I am guessing the answer to that is NO.

as I did ask back on post #7 about using a meter to check voltages and fuses....

with no reply to either????