Clean earth for top end HiFi

[Lillpete]

I have just been to price up for putting in a new supply (new board fed with separate TT)

In the email he has from the manufacturers it says "It has been found that it sounds better with a higher rated circuit breaker, so use a 32A as standard. A type B will still trip with a system like this, so it still needs a type C curve. also use the largest cable you can fit, at least 6mm and preferably 10mm.

If you want the best sound quality then you should fit a separate mains earth rod. wire the incoming cable earth to the house earth at the consumer unit (to protect the cable) and the earth at the sockets for the HiFi to the rod - do not join the two earths together"

I can understand the idea of running in a clean earth as his amp has a bit of a buzz to it but I don't see why running larger cables would help reduce this??.

Not having wired a clean earth supply before am I right in thinking that you would connect the bonding and main (pme) earth to the ccu but install an earth rod and run a separate cpc to the earth of the cocket??

 

[Andy™]

is this something from russ andrews?

 

[NozSpark]

[quote name='Andy

 

[revjames]

another complete waste of money...

 

[Lillpete]

Yep, have you come across him before??

 

[NozSpark]

Have a look at his website....

he seems to sell stuff that only very naieve, guillable and wealthy AV enthusiasts "need"

 

[steptoe]

yep, Im pretty sure we have had a similar discussion before,

obviously he has a total disregard for not only the electrical regs in this country, but the safety of his customers as well,

yeah, fine, I have a PME supply, but lets not earth this HI-FI, just bang a rod in and it will be much better sound cos I told the (didnt see that coming idiot) customer it will be soooo much better sound.!

almost everyone is going for combined earths as far as I can tell these days,

'clean' earths seem to have run their faze so to speak.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:46 ----------

oh, forgot, does this e.mail also recommend that the plug screws all line up in the horizontal position too.?

:slap

 

[PC Electrics]

If you're going to do this job, you must use an RCD socket. You are effectively creating a mini TT system just like you would for an outside socket for caravan use.

I suspect you'll have to use 6mm, I doubt 10mm would go into the socket connections.

Can't help being skeptical about the benefits for sound quality though

 

[kme]

Not sure if I put this in our previous dissection of him; but it used to be that he would recommend aligning the screw heads on the terminals; preferably north/south - "it gives a better quality sound".

However, I have found that requesting a "private" transformer tap from the 11KV sub gives a much more noticable improvement in sound quality - especially if you also use lead sleeves round the KT66 or 12AX7 matched pair

S/N ratio will drop from from <100dB to <300dB, under optimal circumstances ( which also requires the DNO supply to use OFC - [oxygen-free copper] )

HTH :tongue in cheek

KME

 

[steptoe]

You are completely wrong KME , its W E on the screws.

You should have an instant BAN for even suggesting N S , even Apache knows this.

 

[revjames]

I find I get optimal signal to noise ration and subdued wow and flutter if I turn the right screw in a NW direction and the left in a SW direction. Cant find anything on the Russ Andrews site to back this up so I am a bit concerned....

 

[Andy™]

Yep, have you come across him before??

search 'russ andrews'. he has a few threads on here just about him....

 

[Robojin]

It seems that the ASA has been looking into Russ Andrews advertising claims according to one of the two main HiFi mags, would this be down to RA being unable to substantiate these claims of improved quality I wonder?

I'm surprised they don't sell snake oil, or perhaps they do?

 

[Sidewinder]

Lilipete,

You can do exactly what your customer wants.

First thing is you need the design drawings and calculations from RA to put into the clients info pack.

Then you need to get him to sign the design aspect of the EIC as in compliance with BS7671:2008.

When you then do the install and I&T you detail any non compliances with BS7671 as far as you are concerned and then write back to the designer (RA) to get these ratified.

Clean earths and ground loops can pose issues and, they are still used in certain installs.

HOWEVER the use of these MUST still comply with relevant statutory and other relevant regulations.

Oh, & I thought it was all supposed to be only non ferrous materials in the construction of all of the electrical accessories in the circuit, thus no significant magnetic fields!

:tongue in cheek

 

[ianmacd]

The problem with sound is its subjective. Also there will be an element of perceptual adaptation involved so it will be difficult for the ASA to do anything.

 

[revjames]

Some people can't listen to te music, they spend all their time sistening for crackles, hiss, mains hum.... might as well eat a box of rice crispies! Most modern amplifiers (I have a 20 year old Technics SUV670 which kicks out 100W RMS and is class AA) have more than adequate isolation from mains - ie isolating transformer and most are class 2 in any case. People who think they need to spend

 

[steptoe]

Your both wrong as it depends on the orientation of the mains supply as to which way you orientate the socket screws, and if you face mecca you need insulated screws :slap On a serious note steps, clean earths are still common practice in control panels with invertors and such like, however we never rod an item and leave it alone in the earth world :slap ROTFWL :slap

thanks for that canoe, so how do they work then? is it simply a straight earth back to the incommer, or a proper earth rodded and protected properly?

I've never done much with that sort of gear and when I have its been to AN others spec.

 

[Lillpete]

I've told the client that I am not happy to install sockets supplied by an separate earth rod as I don't believe it is safe in a domestic environment to have the possibility of two different earths with different potentials in the same room.

He went back to the Naim helpdesk who apparently said that this is the same as is done perfectly safely at caravan parks??

Can anyone shed any light on this? as I haven't worked on any caravan sites so other than the fact your not allowed TNC-S I know very little of the regs.

 

[Sidewinder]

Lillpete,

That is not what is done in caravan parks.

You can't have mixed earthing systems in the same equipotential zone.

You can't have mixed earthing systems within accessible reach of each other.

A caravan is its own equipotential zone.

Each caravan will be wholly protected by its own rcd.

There are a few little deviations to those statements.

Thus this is not what is done.

 

[Lillpete]

Lillpete,That is not what is done in caravan parks.

You can't have mixed earthing systems in the same equipotential zone.

You can't have mixed earthing systems within accessible reach of each other.

A caravan is its own equipotential zone.

Each caravan will be wholly protected by its own rcd.

There are a few little deviations to those statements.

Thus this is not what is done.

That's what I thought :x