Code 1 or code 2?

[springcrocus]

Right, guys and gals, Chrimbo is past and time for a genuine electrical query.

By chance, I was shown a PIR on a property that a lady rents out in the summer. One of the items was:

Code 2 - no RCD on the shower

Now, I would have given that a code 1 because I feel that it requires immediate attention - I can think of nothing more dangerous than an electric shower (instantaneous water heater, not a pumped shower).

I happen to know the bloke who did the PIR and, in a roundabout way, asked him why he would give a non-RCD protected shower a code 2 fail. His answer was that it was initially installed before it became a requirement to RCD said circuit.

My knowledge of the regs does not go back to such a time so I put it to you people.

What code would you give it? (and why)

 

[jl-heating]

it was advisable to fit an rcd so yes code 1 in my book.

would add a note to upgrade the breaker.

question

Subcategory - 1. BS7671

While I understand safety issues & the advised requirement, is it actually a regulation with regard the 16th edition regs,that a RCD be fitted to either an existing shower installation or even for that matter to a completely new installation?

answer ;

RCD's on showers is not a requirement of BS7671 (at the moment), but may be a manufacturers recommendation

nothing in the 16th stating the use of an rcd for a shower.

all i have ever seen is manufacturers recommend them.

but the last periodic test that was done on a property i worked on the tester pulled the breaker on the shower and said it was dangerous and a shower could not be fitted without rcd protection in a property and it had been like this for over 10 years.

i personally think he was wrong, and i can find nothing to say any different.

 

[binky]

Not code 1 - it does not represent an immediate threat to life. Code 1 applies to things such as exposed live terminations, accessories that are burning out, etc etc. Personally wouls code 4 this as non-compliant with 17th, although in rented premises would consider code 2 because it is a business*, ergo should be kept up to date to cover landlords' (and my) back.

*You don't have direct contact with the user in rented premises, whereas with a homeowner you can inform and discuss issue directly and allow them to make an informed descision.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

i would also class as code 2 but would say though it needs sorting fairly quickly

 

[cheggers]

this is a code 4 we all would like to code it 1 or 2 but it is a code 4, there was no requirement for a rcd on a shower circuit. (only a recommendation from the manufacturers as a get out clause)the niceic always said they require what the manufacturers recommended.

 

[a1]

Cheggers is correct.

 

[M107]

It's a 4 from me.

But would advise one is installed all the same.

 

[Theorysparky]

It's a 4 from me.But would advise one is installed all the same.

Ditto

 

[springcrocus]

Thank you all for your opinions, please treat yourselves to a couple of Guiness DrinkGuiness Drink

It appears that this is a classic conflict between the regs and common sense.

It's a code 4 (so the person who did the PIR was wrong, as was I for forgetting that code 1 is for immediate danger Blushing) because it doesn't conform to current regs, but we'd all strongly recommend that an RCD is fitted.

Seems like a sensible compromise to me.

 

[jl-heating]

agreed ..

 

[The Godfather]

Just looking at this post, I'm inclined to base my view on the age of the shower and the installation in general.

If the main bonding is in place and the shower was installed prior to the 17th, then a code 4.

If the installation has no Main bonding, one might consider a code 2 depending on other factors (the state of the installation).

Don

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Agreed not a code 1...

Because an RCD provides "Additional Protection"...

there should be Basic protection in place anyway!!!

IF the basic protection is "kak" as well them maybe code 1...

The lack of RCD only becomes a significant hazard in the event of a fault where the user is in contact with a live part......

I've seen showers where the plastic case has been mettled or cracked around one of the dials.. thus loosing its IP rating...

this i would probably put as code 1.. greater risk of water & bare flesh possibly contacting live parts...

Remember there are thousands of showers still out there working with no RCD's they are NOT and immediate danger...

just the risks may be higher of electric shock in the event of a particular type of fault.

It would be preferable to install an RCD and this would provide "Additional Protection"..... but it ain't dangerous in itself!

 

[Battersby]

"... the niceic always said they require what the manufacturers recommended."

Only because that's what the regs say about manufacturers' instructions.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Only because that's what the regs say about manufacturers' instructions.

Agreed Battersby.

and .....

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