Confused homeowner in the middle of renovation work

[nixnix]

I am looking for advice - information regarding equipment in our new electricity meter.

The new site for our electricity supply is over 3mtrs from the CU so we are having a sub main run from meter to CU, a fused switch is required between sub main and meter (tails from fused switch to meter) However the asssessor from UKPN has told us we cannot site the fused switch in the meter cupboard, when I contacted the DNO for clarification I was told that the regulations did not prohibit the installation of the required fused switch but they could not override the assessor, also that the DNO is only responsible up to the head and that the utility supplier could give permission for the fused switch to be put in meter cupboard, (Supplier has agreed just waiting for written confirmation) Why would the assessor say we could not put switch in the meter cupboard and why is it so difficult to get a straight answer, having the fused switch sited elswhere will cause untold problems ie digging up of concrete slab to find trunking etc. Any advice-information would be much appreciated.

Thanks nixnix

 

[NozSpark]

You should not really be putting any of your own equipment in the meter cupboard,, you supply it for their equipment only.

An easy(ish) way to do what you need is to site your own meter cabinet beside your suppliers one ,

Feed the tails through and connect up as you like

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hello nixnix, welcome to the forum. I would guess that 90%+ of fused switches are mounted in the meter cupboard. It sounds like someone is just being a bit petty IMHO! Strictly speaking there were/are rules about only installing the cut-out and meter in the the meter cupboard. (ensure the suppliers always have enough room for their kit). But real world common sense usually prevails, modern electronic meters are much smaller and providing you have a reasonable sized meter box there shouldn't be too much problem. But some meter boxes are quite compact and limited of space! Also remember the meter box belongs to the homeowner not the DNO, so it is actually your box not theirs!

Doc H.

 

[fletchflash]

any job i've been and had to fit a fused isolator has always gone in box if there. with only 3metres of tails to play with where else are you supposed to put it? Take it the assessor gave you no practical alternative. Just a 'no'?

 

[Badger]

tell him youll put it on the outside external wall for all the rain and snow to get into it bad day explode :^O :^O:tongue in cheek]

 

[steptoe]

who is this assessor?

never heard of UKPN,

who are they?

 

[batty]

Arn't they the ones who took over EDF.

 

[nixnix]

Existing meter box has a fused switch in it as the run to CU is over 3 meters, why will they not replicate the supply that we have now in the new position, also DNO assessor suggested that the fused switch be sited elswhere for installation then put in the meter box after installers have left!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 08:18 ---------- Previous post was made at 08:15 ----------

Hi Doc,

The assessor suggested that we site fused switch elsewhere then move into box after installation!!, existing meter box has the fused switch as run to CU is over 3 metres surely they can fit like for like, not sure how to resolve this, I can't afford for them to turn up to move supply and have them say they can't complete the work and then charge another

 

[Doc Hudson]

What size is your meter box, is it one of smaller sized boxes where space could be a problem? Who is doing your electrical work, are you an electrician or is someone else doing your work? Is there any other qualified person with first hand knowledge of your site layout who could suggest a temporary or permanent solution. It can be quite hard offering suggestions in this case without actually seeing the site. I am still convinced the actually connecting guy who fits the meter would just join up to your switch without worrying its in the meter box. As long as his job is quick and easy and its electrically safe, he wont worry!

Doc H

 

[ProDave]

You need to give us the full story, as I'm confused. (easilly done)

So you have a switched fuse already. Why do you need a new one?

What is actually changing here? are you moving the CU further from the meter box? or is this a new meter box because for some reason the supply into the house is being moved?

In any event, I personally would ignore the "assesor" (whoever he is, have never heard of that before)

I would fit the new switch fuse in the meter box, up in one corner so it's not in the way, and leave meter tails attached to it, ready to go into the meter.

Then when the DNO's meter guys, or linesmen (whoever turns up) comes to do the job, I very very much doubt they are going to tell you to move the switch fuse somewhere else.

P.S Is this another case of your energy supplier is NOT your local DNO, so your energy supplier is telling you one thing, and the DNO is telling you different? If so go with what the DNO say, they are the ones that will actually come to do the job.

 

[Evans Electric]

Just put the bloody thing in there , top right hand corner ,near as pos. Whats this mysterious assessor from UKIP or whatever it is going to do ? Just another of the many Merchant Bankers who seem to proiferate in our trade , each with his own self important agenda , anything to show his little bit of authority and that he can't possibly bend what is a most stupid rule. A few years ago he'd have been wearing a uniform and a flat cap ,a bit like a policeman.

Doubtless he's never been "on the tools" so he won't be able to remove it and as Prodave says , the meter man won't give a stuff either unless he's another who's a bit precious and could'nt get a job as a traffic warden or car park clamper .

Ooooh ! I could squeem and squeem till I'm thick !!!

 

[wozz]

The assessor has said this as this is the way it is, right or wrong, it i what it is, a pain.

The room could be used by them for things that rnt apparent at the moment. What if they need to put a voltage logger on the supply how big is it? (although UKPN seem reluctant to do this when i request), what if things go really wrong and a second head has to be installed to keep you with service temporarily or something? How big are smart meters going to get?

You may get away with it you may not personally i wouldnt risk this, how far are you through the renovation, could it not be arranged for the SW fuse to be three meters away in a discrete location?

 

[nixnix]

The question is should we take the risk and get the electrician to instal the fused switch and hope the guys who come to move the supply don't bat an eyelid.

OR

Will the DNO move and instal the supply in the new position if the switch is located inside the house with tails running to the meter, but nothing connected beyond the fused switch, the new kitchen back to the CU will be certificated, but the sub main will not be connected so we will be left with out electricity for a few days until work to connect the sub main can be completed, (the trunking to carry the sub main is under the slab of the extension and will require excavation, or are we just banging our head against a wall, if I had unlimited supplies of money I would take a chance (if only)

I do not envy you electricians, the regs I have tried to understand might as well be written in tongues.

 

[ProDave]

Moving a supply is always tricky, coordinating the electrician and the DNO to come on the same day, and hope there are no delays.

I still don't have a full picture of what's happening. Where is the supply and meter now, and how far is it being moved?

 

[nixnix]

Hi Pro Dave,

Existing supply is being moved about 4 metres to left on new extension as existing meter box is at eye level next to front door and looks awful, also we are moving the CU into a purpose built utility cupboard in new kitchen so the cu is still remote from metre cupboard about 10metres. Existing meter cupboard has a fused switch in it as the existing CU is over 3metres from meter. DNO surveyor has said we cannot have a fused switch in new meter box although there is one in the existing box, but said after the supply had been moved and re-connected we could put what we want in the box.

Problem is we laid trunking under the extension so that we could pull the sub main from cupboard in new kitchen to the new metre box, to site the fused switch in the house would mean excavating the footings and slab of extension to re-route the sub main, we have a qualified electrican to carry out this work and we think we can co-ordinate if the switch can be put in the box, if we have to excavate we may not be able to pull this together and may be powerless for a few days, we are already a year behind due to cowboy builder, we could do with a nice easy solution, unlikely I know but we can dream

 

[steptoe]

stick it in the cabinet, and pin a

 

[ProDave]

Yes, just go with the switch fuse in the corner of the new meter box.

Treat the DNO guys nicely, offer them a cup of tea as soon as they arrive (boil the kettle as soon as they arrive before they cut the juice) and I really doubt they will have any issue with it.

You will need your own electrician on site at the same time as the DNO. As soon as they cut the power, your sparky needs to ensure everything is ready to accept power from the new supply so the DNO can energise it then leave.

I take it your new switch fuse feeds to the new CU, so your sparky will probably have to arrange a temporary submain from there to energise the old CU for a while until he can move all the circuits over to the new CU.

Apart from anything else, the presence of a sparky on site while the DNO is there confirms to them it's being done properly and they are likely to be less picky than if just you are there not sure what is happening.

 

[apprentice87]

Hi, My understanding of it is this. [at least as far as a NEW supply is concerned]

Part 1,

The DNO are not in the least little bit interested in what arrangements are made for metering. They will come along, install their new cutout, and clear off.

Part 2,

Next step is the meter operator people will come along to install their meter. Now, if your "installation" is there to be connected UP BY THEM they might want to see an EIC first.

HOWEVER, All you have to do, is to install within three meters of the proposed new meter position [next to the box on the wall i would] an MCCB or an isolator WITH NOTHING CONNECTED TO IT. So far as i know they HAVE to connect to this, and then what you do later is entirely up to you. [Put the MCCB in the meter box!!]

All i can say is it worked for me.

I found a set of rules somewhere that says they HAVE to connect, even if all is there is an isolator. I will try to find them again for you if i can.

As to there might not be room in the box for things they might want to do in future, tough, it is YOUR box not theirs....

john

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:37 ----------

Ha ha, found THEIR OWN RULES!!

http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/products-services/networks/pdf/UK_Power_Networks_-_MOCOPA_Distribution_Business_Information.pdf

HAVE A LOOK AT PAGE 10

"For the avoidance of doubt, where customer

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hello nixnix

 

[ProDave]

I'll just add that the exact procedure depends on your DNO, they all have their local rules.

Up here, the DNO (Scottish Hydro Electric) will NOT connect to a CU that has no circuits. But they WILL connect to a CU that has ONE tested and certified circuit. So often for a new build, I connect one radial circuit feeding one double socket right next to the CU, issue an EIC for that, and they are happy to energise that. That then gives a site supply for the rest of the build.

Also, it depends on who turns up. Sometimes they will connect your tails into the meter. Other times the guy says it's not his job, so goes to his van for a 5 minute break while he waits for you (or your electrician) to connect the tails before he tests, inserts the fuse and seals.

One other thing, if installing a duct for the DNO to pull their cable through, it MUST be black. One customer of mine put in a bit of blue alcathene water pipe, and (quite rightly) the DNO refused point blank to pull their supply cable through that.