Couldnt find me stopcxck!

[Robin Spark]

Went upto Staffs today to install couple of sockets in small office, i havent been to these premises before but its for a customer I do a lot of work for and these premises were rewired at the start of this year along with a load of refurb work done by my clients builder and his sparky.

I have seen this sparky's work before and he is really neat and work always looks really good.

Any how, they wouldnt let me turn the leccy off as the ladies were busy with their computers and customers and because there was a spare 16amp cb in the board I installed a small new radial cct without too much bother. I must add that I dont normally work this way or advise to anyone to work on a live consumer unit!

I didnt disconnect main bond at gas but could see at both ends it was new cable and tested at 0.2 ohms, however stopcock for water couldnt find it in the building and the nice ladies in the office didnt know where it was either.

So now I'm bit stuck with completing the EIC and dont really want to have another 80 mile round trip.

Any ideas?

BTW trying to speak to the original sparky is gonna be impossible as he never answers the phone!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Went upto Staffs today to install couple of sockets in small office, i havent been to these premises before but its for a customer I do a lot of work for and these premises were rewired at the start of this year along with a load of refurb work done by my clients builder and his sparky.............................So now I'm bit stuck with completing the EIC and dont really want to have another 80 mile round trip.

Any ideas?

BTW trying to speak to the original sparky is gonna be impossible as he never answers the phone!

What does his previous EIC say?

Any comments as to where the stop cock water bond is on that Cert?

Is there a water bond?

or is it ALL plastic?

 

[Apache]

I have no internal stopcock

 

[Robin Spark]

What does his previous EIC say?

Didnt see any paperwork.

Any comments as to where the stop cock water bond is on that Cert?

Is there a water bond? 2*10mm + 16mm G/Y in consumer unit

or is it ALL plastic?

Never gave that a thought as all the pipe work I saw above the suspended ceiling and in the kitchen upstairs was plastic

 

[septiclecky]

Went upto Staffs today to install couple of sockets in small office, i havent been to these premises before but its for a customer I do a lot of work for and these premises were rewired at the start of this year along with a load of refurb work done by my clients builder and his sparky.I have seen this sparky's work before and he is really neat and work always looks really good.

Any how, they wouldnt let me turn the leccy off as the ladies were busy with their computers and customers and because there was a spare 16amp cb in the board I installed a small new radial cct without too much bother. I must add that I dont normally work this way or advise to anyone to work on a live consumer unit!I didnt disconnect main bond at gas but could see at both ends it was new cable and tested at 0.2 ohms, however stopcock for water couldnt find it in the building and the nice ladies in the office didnt know where it was either.

So now I'm bit stuck with completing the EIC and dont really want to have another 80 mile round trip.

Any ideas?

BTW trying to speak to the original sparky is gonna be impossible as he never answers the phone!

Oh deary me sounds like your in breach of regulation 14 EAWR

 

[green-hornet]

Oh deary me sounds like your in breach of regulation 14 EAWR

Yes it does but there are always times where this would have to happen in the real world, the only option would have had to do it out of hours.

As to the bonding to water, I always throw a 10mm to the water at first fix, and then on second fix found it not required, this would be stated on the EIC though. I would always ask for any certificates they are required by law to have copies for inspection so should have them. Onr tip for when you can not find a stop tap is to look at the outside of the property for the external stop tap if fitted the properties stop tap would normally be on the wall closest to this. (its a square metal plate with water printed on top)

 

[Evans Electric]

80 mile trip eh !! Just don't write anything for the water , you couldn't find it, you did your best, cast it from your mind and move onwards and upwards . If there is someone who is concerned about it, then let him go see for himself.

Life is too short and we all have a living to earn.

I,ve had to do it on quite a few domestics, water bond sealed behind new kitchen units , can't access it , just left it off the cert.

Bound to upset a few , in fact I know of someone who would spend the day removing the kitchen units or, as happened once, sawed a bloody big hole in the back of a unit, to find he still couldn't see it , cut hole in the next one , clients returned and did their nuts .

 

[green-hornet]

I have opened up big holes in the back of kitchen units before, the clamp has to be available for inspection, work I did for the electrical safety council insisted on this as part of the wiring regulations.

Where I have not verified connection via clamp I have noted it on any PIR as a code 4 if continuity can be verified via wander lead, or code 3 if the readings are high, showing connection possible via cross bonding.

 

[Robin Spark]

Normally I would do work for this client out of hours because its always a lot easier to get the job done and obviuosly no problems with safe isolation and I just ensure with whoever is in charge that all of the computers have been shut down before I start work, however this time it wasnt possible due to time constraints.

So what you guys are saying is that i could either leave off the "tick" for main bond to water checked, or make a note as not visible for testing purposes?

 

[Andy™]

I have opened up big holes in the back of kitchen units before, the clamp has to be available for inspection, work I did for the electrical safety council insisted on this as part of the wiring regulations.Where I have not verified connection via clamp I have noted it on any PIR as a code 4 if continuity can be verified via wander lead, or code 3 if the readings are high, showing connection possible via cross bonding.

not if its sweated on

but then the problem is, unless its stated on paperwork, how do you know if its sweated on unless you can inspect it

 

[initforthemoney]

Y I would always ask for any certificates they are required by law to have copies for inspection so should have them.

What law would that be?

 

[Robin Spark]

Oh deary me sounds like your in breach of regulation 14 EAWR

Aghh! But I did do a risk assessment before I started work

1. cordoned off the area around the consumer unit which was at high level anyway so wouldnt have been a risk to staff or other visitors

2. The trained first aider was well fit! So i was actually looking forward to some CPR from her :x ; )

3. The consumer unit was all nicely terminated inside with loads of room so it wasnt really a problem bringing another cable inside to connect up.

 

[green-hornet]

What law would that be?

EAWA, and other H&S regulations to comply with any health and safety policy.

 

[sparkyrj]

I have no internal stopcock

I would see a doctor about that.

 

[initforthemoney]

EAWA, and other H&S regulations to comply with any health and safety policy.

Well if thats the case i reckon there will be thousands of domestic, commercial and industrial properties that are breaking this law.

Out of all the years i have been trading there have barely been a handful of previous certificates available.

I have certainly never seen a law written about this.

I would love to see it though, if you have a link

 

[green-hornet]

Well if thats the case i reckon there will be thousands of domestic, commercial and industrial properties that are breaking this law.Out of all the years i have been trading there have barely been a handful of previous certificates available.

I have certainly never seen a law written about this.

I would love to see it though, if you have a link

The law if there was one (explained later) would only be directed at commercial and industrial, and would not effect domestic.

Since my post and your reply I have checked the "Legal" status on the regulation and I found that it is not law. I therefore made a mistake in saying it was.

The only thing I did find in the regulations is the phrase " safety certificates should be kept on site". This was taken from the HSE stance on the bill and not defined as such in the bill itself.

However some health and safety policies drawn up by various companies both private and public may have this as a prequirement for the policy to be affective.

I apologise if I made an unfounded statement, but I would hope that all responsible electricians inform clients of the importance of EIC and PIR certificates being available for inspection, as any test can provide vital information as to the breakdown of any circuit that could not be assertained without prior test results being available.

Again sorry if I have mis informed any one.

 

[tom1]

The law if there was one (explained later) would only be directed at commercial and industrial, and would not effect domestic.Since my post and your reply I have checked the "Legal" status on the regulation and I found that it is not law. I therefore made a mistake in saying it was.

The only thing I did find in the regulations is the phrase " safety certificates should be kept on site". This was taken from the HSE stance on the bill and not defined as such in the bill itself.

However some health and safety policies drawn up by various companies both private and public may have this as a prequirement for the policy to be affective.

I apologise if I made an unfounded statement, but I would hope that all responsible electricians inform clients of the importance of EIC and PIR certificates being available for inspection, as any test can provide vital information as to the breakdown of any circuit that could not be assertained without prior test results being available.

Again sorry if I have mis informed any one.

there was know need to go to all that trouble mate but thanks for doing it, i have learned a little more.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

so what if the last cert was done by someone who likes to make up readings to fit and not use actual readings before little adjustments are made to tally r1+r2, Zs and Ze. For example many leckys will also put down >200M for I.R. without actually doing the test.

 

[green-hornet]

so what if the last cert was done by someone who likes to make up readings to fit and not use actual readings before little adjustments are made to tally r1+r2, Zs and Ze. For example many leckys will also put down >200M for I.R. without actually doing the test.

I must admit that is one of my pet hates, I used to put >500 because my tester did this high value, the software I now use puts the standard >200 on the results, I found one occasion where an electrician did no IR tests but could not find the problem of the nuisance tripping of a RCD, turns out when the skirting boards were fitted the joiner went right through a cable.

 

[initforthemoney]

The law if there was one (explained later) would only be directed at commercial and industrial, and would not effect domestic.Since my post and your reply I have checked the "Legal" status on the regulation and I found that it is not law. I therefore made a mistake in saying it was.

The only thing I did find in the regulations is the phrase " safety certificates should be kept on site". This was taken from the HSE stance on the bill and not defined as such in the bill itself.

However some health and safety policies drawn up by various companies both private and public may have this as a prequirement for the policy to be affective.

I apologise if I made an unfounded statement, but I would hope that all responsible electricians inform clients of the importance of EIC and PIR certificates being available for inspection, as any test can provide vital information as to the breakdown of any circuit that could not be assertained without prior test results being available.

Again sorry if I have mis informed any one.

No worries Mr GH.