Creda Economy 7 Heater Issue

[weathers]

Hi

I wonder if anybody would be kind enough to help me.

I have a Creda Combi Slim TSR4ACW Economy 7 Storage Heater.

It has stopped coming on.

The bottom fan works and I've had an electrician check the elements and everything else and it appears to be working ok.

He bypassed the off switch (as it only comes on at midnight) and everything works we had heat out of it.

Then we swapped the spur and the also swapped the individual fuses over in the fusebox but it still doesnt work.

Can anybody help

Please?

Thanks Tim

 

[Evans Electric]

That type of heater has 2 supplies to it ......... normal 24 hour  feed  to work the fan heater in the base    and an off peak supply to the other part of the unit  which is only available for 7 hours   ( usually from midnight  to  7 am )  .

It sounds like you have lost the off peak supply , your Spark should be able to sort that , its difficult on here.

You refered to "Fuses"  so it may be an older installation , the time switch that delivers the  off peak tariff  may be broken , the heating fuse board may simply be switched off .

If you have an old style time switch with a dial,  look to see if it's set at the correct time  (GMT)  .  It will be sealed but usually has a glass window,  note the time opposite the pointer ...come back in an hour and see if its moved ...if not  ask whoever you buy your power from to sort it ...there would be no charge.  

 

[ProDave]

So you have more than one storage heater?

If so are the other storage heaters working?  If so the DNO's time switch is working.

you obviously (unfortunately) got a "dud" electrician, because a competent one should have been able to verify if the fuses and wiring etc was okay.

 

[weathers]

The heater is one of many there are two in the lounge and the other is working fine.

The electrician tried the heater IE bypassed it and it was working when he bypassed it.

He checked all the elements and the supply to the heater and all were working he checked the plug end or spur and that was fine and it was fine when it was switching over.

Anything else thats stopping the supply to the heater at 12 am when its supposed to come on.

I think the electrician was ok hes done loads of other dtuff and has never let me doen.

Thanks Tim

 

[ProDave]

HOW did he "bypass" the electricity boards timer?

With a modern radio controlled time switch, now often built in as integral part of a dual rate electricity meter, there is no way to just turn it on.

You can, temporarily, feed the circuit that supplies a storage heater, from the normal peak rate CU, and that will check the heater is heating up. but it has NOT checked the off peak CU.

It could be something as simple as a dud MCB in the off peak CU. I would expect a competent electrician to find that.

There are also dead tests you can do with an ohm meter to verify that the heater is actually connected to the off peak circuit and the connection all the way through is good.

That's why I think your electrician was short of the mark I am afraid.

You could invite him round after midnight one night when the off peak power is on so he can trace the power through and find the problem when it should be working.

 

[weathers]

He bypassed it by connecting a plug that was swithced on in a socket to the main terminal of the heater.

The heater came on ok. But the main timer must be working because all the other heaters in the flat are working ok?

Is that correct? its only one heater and he checked all the curiciuts and when he coonected it to a mains supply all four elements came on.

So next we checked the spur and that seems ok its also been changed now and still not working so its had two and he changed the feed round on the main board IEhe wired another heater into the one not working and vice versa and the heater that wasnt working is still not working.

So no change.

I'm completely stumped is there anything else it can be

Thanks for all your help on this

Tim

 

[ProDave]

Yes.

A simple continuity check from the L and N terminals of the heater back the the MCB that feeds it in the off peak CU, and the neutral bar in the off peak CU.

and of course check the MCB that feeds that heater.

It's not rocket science, and if the electrician couldn't think of doing that test, then as I say, he's not up to much.

So far untested is the cable run, the actual operation of the local switch, and the operation of the MCB in the off peak CU.

 

[weathers]

Thanks. As long as thats what it is I suppose?

He checked the socket that runs into on the wall and that was working both as it switched on and off and he checked the MCB at the board becuase he wired the downstairs heater into the one that wasn't working and vice versa and it still wasn't working.

So I'm not so sure he was that incompetant but I dont know much or anything really.

Can you elaborate on how to check "the operation of the MCB in the off peak CU." please.

Are their any electricians in the Leeds area that anybody can recommend to finally get this fixed I'm getting desperate and cold?

Thanks Tim

 

[weathers]

Hi.

I have a problem with a heater I'm in Leeds and need a spark that knows storage heaters to fix mine.

I've posted anotehr link on here to explain whats wrong with it

I can expalin if I can find a sparky willing to do this for me

Thanks Tim

 

[Evans Electric]

Well its now narrowed down , we have :-

Heater is OK

Spur to the heater is OK

Off peak supply is OK

As PD said  there are only three things left .....   (1) The cable between off peak board & heater could be faulty...... (2)  The connection of the cable in the board .............(3)  The fuse or MCB may be at fault .

I don't see there is anything else left to check .

Have you just had some other work carried out , plumbing etc  where the cable could have been damaged?

If those three items are in order, the heater has no other choice than to start working .

Just thought of something else ........ have you messed with the input control knob ,as in , turned it right down to minimum ..just a thought .

I'm sure theres a Forumite in Leeds .

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi.

I have a problem with a heater I'm in Leeds and need a spark that knows storage heaters to fix mine.

I've posted another link on here to explain whats wrong with it

I can expalin if I can find a sparky willing to do this for me

Thanks Tim

Threads merged. Best keeping this all in one thread to avoid duplicate questions.

Doc H.

 

[weathers]

OK so anybody on Leeds who can look at this for me next week please?

 

[Steve3948]

After reading all the above posts it sounds like there is a break in the supply cable.

As PD said above a continuity check on the cable would verify this, did your electrician do this ?

 

[weathers]

He checked the supply to the spur and it was live so there was a current to the unit. But I'm confused as to how Economy 7 works so unsure as to how the current switches at certain times of the day.

The one thing I think is maybe wrong is the switch over in the board but not sure how this works.

The electrician checked this by changing the cables running into the faulty heater with the one downstairs IE the feed into the MCB

How does this work IE are there two feeds into the MCB one for off peak one for on peak?

Thanks for all your help.

Tim

 

[Steve3948]

Tim,

Yes I think you are confused, your storage heater is in fact 2 heaters, a convector 24 Hours heater and a Storage Heater, powered only at night and maybe an afternoon boost. The Storage Heater night tariff is around half that of daytime tariff.

Your Electrician tried the Storage Heater part of the unit by connecting it to the 24 Hour tariff and it worked, you say he swapped the circuit in the fuseboard with a known working fuse and it did not work, yet the storage heater that was connected to this circuit worked. You say the switch has been replaced so that only leaves the cable, continuity end to end to confirm would confirm if there is a break. 

 

[ProDave]

As we have explained, it's not rocket science. Your electrician has failed to do basic continuity tests to confirm ALL parts of the off peak wiring are correct.

Yet you seem to persist getting the same electrician again, rather than finding a better one.

The way economy 7 works, is you have a separate consumer unit for all the off peak loads, these are all your storage heaters and probably an immersion heater.

This off peak consumer unit is only energised with power at night. That's controlled by a time switch, which depending upon how old the installation is, may be a clockwork switch, a radio controlled switch, or on the most recent installations, the time switch is built into the dual rate electricity meter.

You know the off peak consumer unit is getting power at night as the other storage heaters work.

You know this particular storage heater is okay, as it gets hot when powered locally from the daytime supply.

So I'll repeat one more time (get your electrician to read this bit) you have NOT yet checked that the cable between the off peak CU and the local switch for that heater is working.  you have not yet checked that the MCB in the off peak CU feeding that heater is working.

None of us here can test that for you. So go and get a better electrician to do the job properly.

 

[weathers]

Ok thanks I'm only asking here ok.

THanks anyway and no I'm not using the same electrician I cant find one to do it other than the one I had and I've not asked him back.

Regards Tim