Definate Newbie - Going for NICEIC/NAPIT assessment shortly

[New_spark]

Hi All

Just a brief intro.  Currently in the process of getting the qualifications to improve my basic knowledge of the industry as there do not seem to be any time served apprenticeships (especially for a old .... like me). Only want to work on domestic jobs. Too old (and knackered) to start out in commercial as in my 50's - far too much to learn. Have always had an interest in electrics but never had the time to take it seriously until now.  Have been on courses recently and done the 17th Edition regs, the Buildings regs exams and will shortly be 'attempting' initial verification and testing. Looking forward to that and maybe more after it. Hope to get the NICEIC or NAPIT assessment done later this year and would appreciate any feedback from you professional electricians as to which you think is the better scheme. Looking forward to reading as much as I can get the time to read in the future and the experienced/balanced advice.

 

[M107]

Only want to work on domestic jobs. Too old (and knackered) to start out in commercial as in my 50's

You'll still be as knackered doing domestic as if you were doing commercial work.

My advice as a 50 year old sparks .....get knee pads, then somebody younger to crawl through loft spaces 

Hello & welcome by the way.

 

[Lurch]

Domestic s more knackering IMO. Nowadays it is also soul destroying.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi All

Just a brief intro.  Currently in the process of getting the qualifications to improve my basic knowledge of the industry as there do not seem to be any time served apprenticeships (especially for a old .... like me). Only want to work on domestic jobs. Too old (and knackered) to start out in commercial as in my 50's - far too much to learn. Have always had an interest in electrics but never had the time to take it seriously until now.  Have been on courses recently and done the 17th Edition regs, the Buildings regs exams and will shortly be 'attempting' initial verification and testing. Looking forward to that and maybe more after it. Hope to get the NICEIC or NAPIT assessment done later this year and would appreciate any feedback from you professional electricians as to which you think is the better scheme. Looking forward to reading as much as I can get the time to read in the future and the experienced/balanced advice.

Have you actually done any electrical installation courses, you only mention the wiring regs, building regs & testing courses. A bit of basic underpinning of electrical design and installation including the associated calculations would be needed and far more important than just a knowledge of the regulations. As for the various schemes, NICEIC / NAPIT / ELCSA / STROMA etc, that is just down to you own personal preference, budget and how much it will benefit your trading.

Doc H. 

 

[New_spark]

Thanks for the  reply.  Yes the courses attended have a CPD / hands on element to them plus my father, uncle etc were all time served sparks, all totalling upwards of 160 years working in the industrial, contracting sectors to robotic presses for car manufacturers and I was 'dragged' along on many occasions when I was younger. It's one thing being told what they wanted doing to having to comply with current and the future regs to which I will have to certify.  I am trying to ensure that I am not just 'basically' competent but am far more than that. Alas a lot of family are no longer with us to be the sounding board and experienced advisers.

 

[New_spark]

You'll still be as knackered doing domestic as if you were doing commercial work.

My advice as a 50 year old sparks .....get knee pads, then somebody younger to crawl through loft spaces 

Hello & welcome by the way.

Thanks for the advice. I've got the pads but the younger somebody appears to be the problem in any 'hands on job' these days or is that just my experience if there isn't a computer key to press followed by enter,  nobody wants to know.

 

[New_spark]

Domestic s more knackering IMO. Nowadays it is also soul destroying.

What have I let myself in for.

Soul destroying - that's the worrying bit. I didn't read that in the job description. Is it really that bad? I can cope with hard work but ......      So what makes it soul destroying? tryps of work, pay, monotomy?

 

[Lurch]

Soul destroying - that's the worrying bit. I didn't read that in the job description. Is it really that bad? I can cope with hard work but ......      So what makes it soul destroying? tryps of work, pay, monotomy?

Just the way the industry is nowadays, too many complete morons pretending to be electricians because they have done a course. Eternal race tot the bottom, undercutting everywhere and no-one with any experience doing jobs they are clearly not cut out for. Leave them to it, I only do domestic jobs if it's worth it, most aren't. If I was domestic only I would have changed careers a long time ago.

 

[New_spark]

 It does amaze me that you can have such a small amount of experience/knowledge and be assessed, then work on your own.  I think that whoever is making the rules doesn't really understand what is involved in the job but realises that there are not enough trades people available through years of declining apprenticeships.  I have friends who's son is currently on a 3 year apprenticeship and it's just an excuse to get a small amount of money from the government for taking on an apprentice. His college training is appalling and hardly relates to his chosen career.  

Second friend has a family member who works on a charity building scheme, which has an urban farm attached to it. They have an apprenticeship which is classed as training as a carer. They are building and looking after animals. They can't even get on a construction or a farming course. Don't understand the apprenticeship schemes of today.

Worst of all is that it is perfectly legal to pay an apprentice around £5000 which is less than minimum wage. Admittedly everyone has to start somewhere but it is understandable that people will move to more 'profitable' service type jobs than a solid apprenticeship. 

 

[M107]

Just the way the industry is nowadays, too many complete morons pretending to be electricians because they have done a course. Eternal race tot the bottom, undercutting everywhere and no-one with any experience doing jobs they are clearly not cut out for. Leave them to it, I only do domestic jobs if it's worth it, most aren't. If I was domestic only I would have changed careers a long time ago.

Agreed Lurch............for example

This morning I have been out to a fault where yesterday two other "electricians" couldn't find the issue causing the RCD to trip when single socket circuit for the whole property  was energised at the 3871.

First one gave up after 10 mins trying to untangle cables at the cu with "I dont usually do fault finding" so called his mate who turned up, & in fairness tested IR of the circuit & informed the customer "neutral earth fault mate". Then removed all the socket fronts lifted a few floor boards upstairs (none down stairs?) but after 3 hrs couldn't find the fault; so told customer it would need more in depth testing & searching but he would need to come back, but wouldn't be available until Wednesday next week . Customer politely declined & was left with an  invoice of £35 for their time. (£5.83 ph each      ......... tango'd loonies).

I get a call on recommendation when the customer puts his woes on social media. I  turn up to loose terminations & one neutral leg not in the terminal  in the cu after experts 1 & 2 have put it all back correctly before leaving  :steptoe:

Ask the customer if any diy work has been done in the past 24 / 48 hours ....putting up of shelves pictures or  drilling of walls?.... "No",

Any outside sockets or shed electrics?..... "yes one socket  in the shed & one on decking, no idea where it is fed from though"

Test IR on the RF at the cu..... dont know about any neutral earth fault, but the dead short L/E was there;

So I nailed my flag to the mast & predicted................. SLUGS 

Traced the shed cable backwards & yes the ringmain supplies the shed via swa, the swa enters the house under the lounge floor space (didn't bother lifting floor to find the joint, obviously it isn't at a socket otherwise experts 1 & 2 would have questioned the addition cables?), quick check in the shed confirmed T/E to the socket, so got to be a JB somewhere jointing the swa.......& behind the lining I find a 30A JB joining the swa & T/E (no glanding obviously) with a couple of nicely nuked slug across the cpc/Line terminals. Fault identified found & fixed just over the hour , in fact the time taken included drinking a brew, during which customer informs me they let on expert  number 1 was a newly qualified 17th edition electrician .....what ever the courgette that is & his mate has been a  qualified domestic installer for a year or so. Customer got contact details off a flyer through the door.

Told him not to pay their invoice of £35 as he would need it to pay my £70 + materials invoice

 

[phil d]

Agreed Lurch............for example

This morning I have been out to a fault where yesterday two other "electricians" couldn't find the issue causing the RCD to trip when single socket circuit for the whole property  was energised at the 3871.

First one gave up after 10 mins trying to untangle cables at the cu with "I dont usually do fault finding" so called his mate who turned up, & in fairness tested IR of the circuit & informed the customer "neutral earth fault mate". Then removed all the socket fronts lifted a few floor boards upstairs (none down stairs?) but after 3 hrs couldn't find the fault; so told customer it would need more in depth testing & searching but he would need to come back, but wouldn't be available until Wednesday next week . Customer politely declined & was left with an  invoice of £35 for their time. (£5.83 ph each      ......... tango'd loonies).

I get a call on recommendation when the customer puts his woes on social media. I  turn up to loose terminations & one neutral leg not in the terminal  in the cu after experts 1 & 2 have put it all back correctly before leaving  :steptoe:

Ask the customer if any diy work has been done in the past 24 / 48 hours ....putting up of shelves pictures or  drilling of walls?.... "No",

Any outside sockets or shed electrics?..... "yes one socket  in the shed & one on decking, no idea where it is fed from though"

Test IR on the RF at the cu..... dont know about any neutral earth fault, but the dead short L/E was there;

So I nailed my flag to the mast & predicted................. SLUGS 

Traced the shed cable backwards & yes the ringmain supplies the shed via swa, the swa enters the house under the lounge floor space (didn't bother lifting floor to find the joint, obviously it isn't at a socket otherwise experts 1 & 2 would have questioned the addition cables?), quick check in the shed confirmed T/E to the socket, so got to be a JB somewhere jointing the swa.......& behind the lining I find a 30A JB joining the swa & T/E (no glanding obviously) with a couple of nicely nuked slug across the cpc/Line terminals. Fault identified found & fixed just over the hour , in fact the time taken included drinking a brew, during which customer informs me they let on expert  number 1 was a newly qualified 17th edition electrician .....what ever the courgette that is & his mate has been a  qualified domestic installer for a year or so. Customer got contact details off a flyer through the door.

Told him not to pay their invoice of £35 as he would need it to pay my £70 + materials invoice

I remember years back, working for this firm, a one man band, he was getting busier and needed a second man, he was always going on about how he had  2391 and I didn't. Well one day he took me to a job, a boiler that wouldn't run,it was a new model at the time and needed a permanent live as well as a switched live, the perm was for pump overrun. anyway it only had a switched live, neutral and earth connection. I spotted the lack of a permanent live, but said nothing, after an hour of watching him going around in circles I pointed out the missing live, "that's not the problem" he laughed, trying to make me look stupid. I took a  length of flex with a plug on, and coupled the live to the perm live on boiler,plugged it in and switched programmer to "on" and the boiler fired, "not bad considering I've not got the 2391" I said sarcastically,he never mentioned qualifications again, it's ok having them, but you need the experience and knowledge.