Deviating From Bs7671

[Essex1]

It would be interesting to hear examples of members not following BS7671 but providing the same degree of protection.  I personally don't have any such examples as never has a client accepted a deviation.  I know it is acceptable but was just seeing if anyone has used this 'freedom'.

 

[ProDave]

I'll open this with a discussion point.

Sockets in a bathroom.

701.512.3  States "Except for SELV socket outlets complying with section 414, and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5, socket outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3M horizontally from the boundary of zone 1"

On another forum, somebody is arguing this only applies to non IP rated sockets, and you can in fact install an IP rated socket anywhere outside zone 2.

What do you think of that "deviation"?

 

[Andy™]

any use of SY flex is a deviation...

 

[Evans Electric]

I think it is in fact , a deviation , Dave .   Just because its IP rated doesn't prevent the action of plugging in an electric fan heater ....propping it on the soap dish across the bath and jumping in .

I was asked by the son of an elderly couple  to quote to rewire their house .    The old guy took me round , in the bathroom , right next to the bath was a socket , wired in figure 8 door bell cable , clipped to skirting with those insulated staples .

On a low tale , plugged in , were a kettle  with tea making stuff and a radio .

"Always make meself a cuppa while I'm 'aving a baff ..then listen to The Archers"    

any use of SY flex is a deviation...

I've never thought about that before .........  is'nt it just a flexible cable with the addition of a braided screen ?  

Is that why it's difficult to find current ratings for it ? 

I've used miles of it ....don't tell the SY Police .

 

[ProDave]

I think it is in fact , a deviation , Dave .   Just because its IP rated doesn't prevent the action of plugging in an electric fan heater ....propping it on the soap dish across the bath and jumping in .

I was asked by the son of an elderly couple  to quote to rewire their house .    The old guy took me round , in the bathroom , right next to the bath was a socket , wired in figure 8 door bell cable , clipped to skirting with those insulated staples .

On a low tale , plugged in , were a kettle  with tea making stuff and a radio .

"Always make meself a cuppa while I'm 'aving a baff ..then listen to The Archers"    

He claims he has "proof" that it's legal (I have asked for a copy of that proof) but the caveat he claims is the flex of whatever you plug in must not be long enough to reach zone 1.

I had the same argument today, somebody wanting to enlarge their bathroom by taking down a wall to extend it into a cupboard, then wanting a socket in the bathroom for a washing machine.  I told them to keep the cupboard separate from the bathroom and I would fit a socket in there for the washing machine out of the bathroom.

 

[Andy™]

you could fit a fused spur for the washer, providing its out of zones

 

[Essex1]

I'll open this with a discussion point.

Sockets in a bathroom.

701.512.3 States "Except for SELV socket outlets complying with section 414, and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5, socket outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3M horizontally from the boundary of zone 1"

On another forum, somebody is arguing this only applies to non IP rated sockets, and you can in fact install an IP rated socket anywhere outside zone 2.

What do you think of that "deviation"?

I would say that is a deviation that does not meet the same safety standard of BS7671.

any use of SY flex is a deviation...

Example please of a use of sy flex that does not meet 7671 but provides the same level of protection?

I think it is in fact , a deviation , Dave . Just because its IP rated doesn't prevent the action of plugging in an electric fan heater ....propping it on the soap dish across the bath and jumping in .

I was asked by the son of an elderly couple to quote to rewire their house . The old guy took me round , in the bathroom , right next to the bath was a socket , wired in figure 8 door bell cable , clipped to skirting with those insulated staples .

On a low tale , plugged in , were a kettle with tea making stuff and a radio .

"Always make meself a cuppa while I'm 'aving a baff ..then listen to The Archers"

I've never thought about that before ......... is'nt it just a flexible cable with the addition of a braided screen ?

Is that why it's difficult to find current ratings for it ?

I've used miles of it ....don't tell the SY Police .

Apparently sy flex has no UV protection so should not be ised externally. It definetly does not provide adaquate mechanical protection like SWA or conduit does. I cannot see any use for it personally.

 

[Evans Electric]

Who says I used it externally ?

Its horses for courses mate .

 

[Sidewinder]

Deliberately fitting 30mA RCD's in series to offer redundant protection i.e. increasing the chances of one of them operating in the event of a fault by halving, approximately, the chances of common mode failures.

Get it passed all the time by one public sector client.

 

[Essex1]

Who says I used it externally ?

Its horses for courses mate .

Who Said you did? Was just talking mate.

 

[binky]

any use of SY flex is a deviation...

I am intrigued Andy. whilst not exactly 'mechancal protection' the earthed screen does the same thing in a 'light' way as SWA imho, though I'm not a fan, one of my employees is.

 

[OnOff]

He claims he has "proof" that it's legal (I have asked for a copy of that proof) but the caveat he claims is the flex of whatever you plug in must not be long enough to reach zone 1.

I had the same argument today, somebody wanting to enlarge their bathroom by taking down a wall to extend it into a cupboard, then wanting a socket in the bathroom for a washing machine.  I told them to keep the cupboard separate from the bathroom and I would fit a socket in there for the washing machine out of the bathroom.

When and if he gets his scanner working how's he going to send the proof to you 'cos you're not receiving messages on there. I tried to say you'd woken the beast!  :lol:

 

[ProDave]

I've emptied my message folder. Didn't realise it could only store 50 messages and it didn't tell me it was full.

My guess is the "proof" will be the fact he bullied an electrician into giving a satisfactory EICR with the socket there.

 

[OnOff]

I've emptied my message folder. Didn't realise it could only store 50 messages and it didn't tell me it was full.

My guess is the "proof" will be the fact he bullied an electrician into giving a satisfactory EICR with the socket there.

I was going to suggest he'd browbeaten a Select Committee etc into changing the Law!  

Best maybe to just give in, it'll shorten the war by 5 years and save thousands of lives! 

So just to throw it about on here, specifically he has installed an IP65 RCD protected socket in his bathroom 1.35m from the edge of Zone 2. The socket is deeply recessed below the face of the wall with a hinged cover matching the wall board and a magnetic latch. There's enough space underneath for the cable to come out. And all apparently quite legal. As he puts it "The enclosure becomes a suitably protected fitting, just as something like an electric water heater or shower is". Written proof awaited!

Discuss!  :lol:

 

[NozSpark]

The whole reasoning behind the 3m reg is so that you don't have appliances plugged in and next to the bath/shower.

IMHO what you describe is against the regs

 

[binky]

"The enclosure becomes a suitably protected fitting, just as something like an electric water heater or shower is". 
 
except these are fixed equipment, specifically designed for a wet environment.

 

[OnOff]

"The enclosure becomes a suitably protected fitting, just as something like an electric water heater or shower is". 
 
except these are fixed equipment, specifically designed for a wet environment.

Totally agree but this chap conveniently chooses not to consider this in his argument............and as Dave will attest it's a LONG, very eloquent argument but with a few curve balls!  :lol:

 

[Essex1]

Of course it is not to regs. But do his 'precautions' offer the same degree of protection as BS7671?

 

[Dairyspark]

On the topic of SY cable, I was once informed that SY cable does not conform to a BS standard only an EN standard so is that maybe why current ratings are not available in 7671? It is also to my understanding that the steel braid in SY cable offers very little mechanical protection and only serves the purpose of a screen, which leads me to another question, an SY gland connects the braid at both ends effectively forming an earthed sheath, however on the boats I work on any screening on cables is to be connected at one end only and the other end left open to avoid any current flowing along the screen, anyone have a my thoughts on this?

 

[pewter]

I'll open this with a discussion point.

Sockets in a bathroom.

701.512.3  States "Except for SELV socket outlets complying with section 414, and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5, socket outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3M horizontally from the boundary of zone 1"

On another forum, somebody is arguing this only applies to non IP rated sockets, and you can in fact install an IP rated socket anywhere outside zone 2.

What do you think of that "deviation"?

i thought sockets within 3M was buiding regulations which is something we are not ment to deveate from.

I fitted a commando socket for a hot tub within the distance to the hot tubs suposid location. As it was not delivered yet, and the owner assured me he was going to build an enclosure around the socket i did not see any problem.