different ways of wiring lights

[ProDave]

Here's another advantage os loop in switch:

If you want to add an extra light and change a 1G switch to a 2G switch for the extra light, having the neutral at the switch often makes that easier.

Most common example is a switch by the back door on an outside wall. Easy peasy to turn that into a 2G switch with the extra switch feeding an outside light if wiring is loop at switch. Much much harder if loop at light fitting.

I always use 25mm back boxes for loop at switch.

 

[Sidewinder]

OK,

I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works!

The Working at Height Regulations have an ACoP from HSE.

This has a hierarchy of control.

The FIRST thing you MUST do is NOT work at height.

Thus IF the N can be connected in the switch whilst working at a level where you cannot fall from, except onto the same level then you MUST do this to comply with the WAH regs...

You cannot loop the N at the ceiling rose IF it can be connected at the switch to be in compliance with these STATUTORY regulations (i.e. criminal conviction if found to be non compliant!)

Comments...

]

 

[ProDave]

Does the working at height regulations really cover working with your feet 18" or less off the floor?

 

[Andy™]

working at heights cover standing on a piece of paper...

 

[Sidewinder]

Yes if does Dave,

There is now no longer ANY minimum height.

e.g. if a refuse collection operative (binman, but that would not be PC!) trips & falls off a kerb and has an injury that is a WAH injury end of.

Ridiculous I know but I don't make the rules!

 

[revjames]

it used to be 1.8M or higher. Now any height is 'working at heights' ridiculous not to have a specific height.

 

[Sidewinder]

Rev,

Yes it is rubbish!

However, remember it does actually cover falls to a "depth", i.e. excavations too, so watch out if you have a graveyard!...

 

[kme]

OK,I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works!

The Working at Height Regulations have an ACoP from HSE.

This has a hierarchy of control.

The FIRST thing you MUST do is NOT work at height.

Thus IF the N can be connected in the switch whilst working at a level where you cannot fall from, except onto the same level then you MUST do this to comply with the WAH regs...

You cannot loop the N at the ceiling rose IF it can be connected at the switch to be in compliance with these STATUTORY regulations (i.e. criminal conviction if found to be non compliant!)

Comments...

]

OK, mister advocate of the devilish variety........

You`re going to be at the same height anyway, to connect the light / cable to the rose / fitting; so I would have to say that is an odd way looking at it, from my perspective.

If we use your logic here, we should attempt to have customers fit wall lighting instead of ceiling mounted lights. All the lights could be mounted a convenient 1200mm from FFL; thereby providing safe zone from the switch; meaning we don`t have to climb the ladder to the loft, and risk falling from the ladder, or through the ceiling?

BUT.....

We must NOT recommend to a customer that the holes in the ceiling are patched, else WE could end up the responsible person for the plasterer having to work at height!

Sorry mate; there has to be an element of common sense in this - otherwise I can`t go upstairs in the customer`s house (at height), chase the ground floor walls for switch & socket drops (working at height), etc, etc.

Where the heck would it stop? headbang :good night:

 

[Sidewinder]

OK, mister advocate of the devilish variety........Sorry mate; there has to be an element of common sense in this - otherwise I can`t go upstairs in the customer`s house (at height), chase the ground floor walls for switch & socket drops (working at height), etc, etc.

Where the heck would it stop? headbang :good night:

That is my point, there seems to be no end!

Also there is no common sense with respect to some of the legislation.

However, the hierarchy does say don't do it if it can be avoided, it is not possible to avoid chasing walls.

When you are upstairs say in a bedroom standing on the floor of the room, you are probably standing on the level to which you could fall!

Thus no WAH!

 

[steptoe]

I think the consensus is both methods have advantages and disadvantages, I think its just down to personal preference at the end of the day. Steptoe often talks about using a spider wiring method.Doc H.

deffo, makes it so much easier,

fault finding, adding on extras afterwards and so much more.

Personally, ...i don't want to see neutrals in the sw/boxes unless it's absolutely necessary. To be used as a standard wiring system, is to my mind bad practice!!! I dont see why not, much better than 3 plate systemThere are other methods of wiring high ceiling points, without bringing neutrals into the Sw/box.

indeed there are

 

[kme]

That is my point, there seems to be no end!Also there is no common sense with respect to some of the legislation.

However, the hierarchy does say don't do it if it can be avoided, it is not possible to avoid chasing walls.

When you are upstairs say in a bedroom standing on the floor of the room, you are probably standing on the level to which you could fall!

Thus no WAH!

Probably? As in, "I fink so, but won`t stand up in a court?" sort of "probably"?

You can avoid having to chase a wall to the ceiling, by having wall lighting. So we should all do that. The regs tell us so.

The law has been an ass to itself for years - why should generic legislation be any different?

 

[steptoe]

and H&S wont even allow us to work of a set of steps.

http://www.liveleak.com/mp53/player.swf?config=http://www.liveleak.com/mp53/player_config.php?token=07b_1284580365%26embed=1

this is why this country has gone to the dogs,

BTW,

you couldnt pay me enough to do that guys job. :Applaud

 

[Zeespark]

**** that for a game of toy soldiers, just watching this is giving Me vertigo. :run

AndyGuinness

 

[Doc Hudson]

**** that for a game of toy soldiers, just watching this is giving Me vertigo. :run AndyGuinness

After watching Steptoe's link I am tempted to change your **** back to real letters Zeespark! It certainly is **** high up.

Doc H.

 

[mad frankie]

i rather get my steps out, i think working at the light is alot better.... easier to fault find...

i dont know how you wok that out , its got to be easier to fault find at the swich especially if ther are downlights on the circuit, you can segerate the area with the fault without disrupting the rest of the lighting circuit even if the faults between switches. ?:|

 

[revjames]

When I was at the aluminum smelter, WAH was a big issue. If you wanted to change a lamp and you could not get to it with a MEWP you had to get a scaffold built! You could use a step ladder to 'check or test' but not to actually work from.

 

[Sidewinder]

Probably? As in, "I fink so, but won`t stand up in a court?" sort of "probably"?You can avoid having to chase a wall to the ceiling, by having wall lighting. So we should all do that. The regs tell us so.

The law has been an ass to itself for years - why should generic legislation be any different?

No mate,

My "probably" meant that if you are standing in a room on the 1st floor of a dwelling, and can't fall out of the window or down the stairs and there are no holes in the floor then you can realistically only fall to the level upon which you are standing. There will be other reasons but I'm sure you get the gist of my point.

The regs (WAH) don't tell us we can't they tell us we must eliminate it where possible as the first choice. This is why you now see industrial & commercial high level lights being able to be lowered to ground level in many cases.

The designer has statutory duties under CDM to consider future maintenance remember. There has been a recent case of a design consultancy principal contractor and client all being successfully prosecuted for not considering safe access for maintenance to an air conditioning plant at high level where the repair man fell to his death.

Yes the law is quite stupid in many areas!

 

[castlehill]

Hi, was wondering if anyone could explain the benefit of wiring a lighting circuit with the feed wire to the switch instead of the ceiling rose, cheers

I always thought it was mainly to stop DIYers killing themselves. DIYer decides to change pendant for something fancy, dosn't bother to get a sparky. Turns light off at switch as it must be dead now, opens ceiling rose and plates themselves, disconnecting the permanent feed.

 

[a1]

Fair play to them two.

 

[revjames]

I always thought it was mainly to stop DIYers killing themselves. DIYer decides to change pendant for something fancy, dosn't bother to get a sparky. Turns light off at switch as it must be dead now, opens ceiling rose and plates themselves, disconnecting the permanent feed.

And then connects all the reds together to the L and all the blacks together at the N terminal and wonders why there's a big bang when he hits the switch.... how many times have you had that and yes a very good reason to loop round switches!