Distribution Board (Help)

[m4tty]

Hi Jan,

Sorry to butt in but how did you do that picture (what program) earlier on this thread?

Thanks

 

[ProDave]

Is that the Wylex one? If so I bought one and the quality looks about comparable to the B&Q

 

[AAAMUSEMENTS]

Yes all Electrium or something aren't they?

I just expected better overall quality from the Wylex, their stuff used to be really solid once upon a time...

 

[spinlondon]

There does appear to be still some confusion regarding the provision of RCD protection for socket-outlets.

RCD protection should be provided for socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use, and mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32A for use outdoors.

Any socket-outlet provided for a specific purpose such as to connect a fridge, freezer, boiler, cooker, washing machine, dishwasher, waste disposal, TV distribution system etc. and is not intended for general use, does not require RCD protection. You could even argue, that a socket-outlet next to a TV ariel socket is intended for a TV, and that it also does not require RCD protection.

Where socket-outlets are required to have RCD protection, there is no requirement for the RCD to be installed in the CU. Obviously it is easier, and more cost efficient to install an RCD to protect all of the socket-outlets on a circuit, rather than install a number of individual RCD socket-outlets.

Another requirement for RCD protection, is where cables are concealled in walls at a depth less than 50mm. Once again there is no requirement to install the RCD in the CU. The RCD could be installed where the cables physically enter the wall.

There is to my mind, only one requirement where RCD protection should be installed in the CU, and that is to protect circuits of special locations. Although a number of people argue against this.

There appears to be two schools of thought regarding alterations and additions.

One is that when making an alteration or addition to an existing circuit, the whole circuit must then be upgraded to the current Regulations. Although there is no Regulation requiring this.

The other school of thought, is that only the work conducted for the alteration or addition is required to meet the current Regulations, and any defects in the existing installation be noted in the comments box on the Certificate. As required by Regulation 633.2.

As far as the OP's stated intentions, I would as has already been pointed out, install a 40A RCBO for the shower and place the lights either on the RCD protected side, or use RCBOs (especially the light circuit that feeds the bathroom). I would then make notes on the EIC about any circuits that do not comply with the current Regulations, but only where it is reasonably practicable to determine that those circuits do not comply.

 

[paul b b]

Well I won't be getting that one again. I hate volex stuff

It will be comparable, because Wylex, Volex and Marbo are all IDENTICAL except for the name printed on the CU and the MCB's, and of course the price.

 

[AAAMUSEMENTS]

There does appear to be still some confusion regarding the provision of RCD protection for socket-outlets.RCD protection should be provided for socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use, and mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32A for use outdoors.

Any socket-outlet provided for a specific purpose such as to connect a fridge, freezer, boiler, cooker, washing machine, dishwasher, waste disposal, TV distribution system etc. and is not intended for general use, does not require RCD protection. You could even argue, that a socket-outlet next to a TV ariel socket is intended for a TV, and that it also does not require RCD protection.

Where socket-outlets are required to have RCD protection, there is no requirement for the RCD to be installed in the CU. Obviously it is easier, and more cost efficient to install an RCD to protect all of the socket-outlets on a circuit, rather than install a number of individual RCD socket-outlets.

Another requirement for RCD protection, is where cables are concealled in walls at a depth less than 50mm. Once again there is no requirement to install the RCD in the CU. The RCD could be installed where the cables physically enter the wall.

There is to my mind, only one requirement where RCD protection should be installed in the CU, and that is to protect circuits of special locations. Although a number of people argue against this.

There appears to be two schools of thought regarding alterations and additions.

One is that when making an alteration or addition to an existing circuit, the whole circuit must then be upgraded to the current Regulations. Although there is no Regulation requiring this.

The other school of thought, is that only the work conducted for the alteration or addition is required to meet the current Regulations, and any defects in the existing installation be noted in the comments box on the Certificate. As required by Regulation 633.2.

As far as the OP's stated intentions, I would as has already been pointed out, install a 40A RCBO for the shower and place the lights either on the RCD protected side, or use RCBOs (especially the light circuit that feeds the bathroom). I would then make notes on the EIC about any circuits that do not comply with the current Regulations, but only where it is reasonably practicable to determine that those circuits do not comply.

Isn't it just easier, and undoubtedly safer, to advise that as the CU is being changed then all circuits should ideally be on an RCD or RCBO, irrespective of what the regs say?

 

[fletchflash]

Electrium also make crabtree. there can't be much between the brands, but im sure wylex boards are better quality than volex. fitted a few wylex, never fitted a volex but replaced many of their failed breakers.

 

[batty]

Electrium also make crabtree. there can't be much between the brands, but im sure wylex boards are better quality than volex. fitted a few wylex, never fitted a volex but replaced many of their failed breakers.

But they are all probably made in the same factory but on a different day.

 

[spinlondon]

Isn't it just easier, and undoubtedly safer, to advise that as the CU is being changed then all circuits should ideally be on an RCD or RCBO, irrespective of what the regs say?

Problem, is that certain appliances, such as fridges and cookers will cause nuisance trippping of RCDs.

 

[AAAMUSEMENTS]

Problem, is that certain appliances, such as fridges and cookers will cause nuisance trippping of RCDs.

Fair point. The problem is that segregating such appliance circuits, especially given their usual locations, will be well nigh on impossible in all but new installs...

 

[M107]

Electrium also make crabtree. there can't be much between the brands, but im sure wylex boards are better quality than volex. fitted a few wylex, never fitted a volex but replaced many of their failed breakers.

They also make branded consumer units for senate aswel as newy & eyre

 

[maccarooni]

Fair point. The problem is that segregating such appliance circuits, especially given their usual locations, will be well nigh on impossible in all but new installs...

Even on new installs or rewires, although virtually negligible to a certain extent on cost , who would/will install a seperate circuit for a w/m fridge etc. It all comes down to pricing. Dual boards satisfy the regs, and thats all there is to it.

Macca

 

[Apache]

Even on new installs or rewires, although virtually negligible to a certain extent on cost , who would/will install a seperate circuit for a w/m fridge etc. It all comes down to pricing. Dual boards satisfy the regs, and thats all there is to it. Macca

What a ridiculous statement to make at this hour.

I'm sane - it's the rest of them that's crazy

bad day explode

 

[spinlondon]

Even on new installs or rewires, although virtually negligible to a certain extent on cost , who would/will install a seperate circuit for a w/m fridge etc. It all comes down to pricing. Dual boards satisfy the regs, and thats all there is to it. Macca

I have often installed a separate non-RCD circuit for fridges and freezers. In some cases I have used a double socket-outlet as the fridge and the freezer were next to each other.

Dual RCD boards, only satisfy the Regs. in the very loosest of terms.

It could well be argued that they fail to comply with 314.1(i), (ii) & (iv) along with 314.2

 

[Zeespark]

Spin I was told the same by My 2391 lecturer who is the head bigwig at Derby City Councils electrical department. He said that he would never let a contractor under his control install a dual RCD board, He stipulates all RCBO boards.

AndyGuinness

 

[Andy™]

split load/dual split have never fully complied with the regs. but its more cost over convenience for why they are so widely used

i have used dual split well before 17th for TT (not every TT though). only problem then was i had to make my own from a modded single split!

 

[sparkytim]

Spin I was told the same by My 2391 lecturer who is the head bigwig at Derby City Councils electrical department. He said that he would never let a contractor under his control install a dual RCD board, He stipulates all RCBO boards.AndyGuinness

Thats what keeps the Council Tax up high in Derby then!