and if in your own home, legally install
Dodgy CU change
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You are not legally allowed to work on gas even in your own home.
Thing is about the gas your allowed to remove the meter so as to work on the pipe-work so you don't need the meter fairies as on the electric side !!!
Mike, (Registered with Gas Safe Register & NAPIT)
Thing is about the gas your allowed to remove the meter so as to work on the pipe-work so you don't need the meter fairies as on the electric side !!!
Mike, (Registered with Gas Safe Register & NAPIT)
working on gas as a homeowner in your own home where no cash is exchanged is open to debate and depends on the interpretation.. unless the law has changed, may I refer to you to this quote,
"DIY Gas Installation and Maintenance
While current law does now prohibit gas work provided the person is competent to do it safely, DIY is strongly discouraged in HSE guidance, and the use of a Corgi registered gas installer is advised fior all gas work"
Taken from,
http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/disdocs/dde14b.pdf
I know it mentions Competant.. but.. again unless it was changed, there was no definition of "competant".. unlike electrics where competant means holding relevant qualifications, and/being registered.
with gas, based on the oppinion of a few corgi inspectors... competant due to the lack of definition could be proved by in the case of fitting a boiler.. following the instructions EXACTLY to the letter.. and having a safe installation.. however obviously if anything did go wrong your insurance would be void and you could be prosecuted for it... but if nothing went wrong with it and it worked fine and was safely done as per manufacturers instructions you would be considered competant... and the installation would be fine... may of since changed though now... but that was the case not so long ago.
but you wasnt allowed to do gas work in anybody elses house.. family or friends, even if no cash was exchanged.
was limited to just the homeowner doing it in their own home only.
that is why people can buy gas fittings, and spare parts.. even gas appliances and boilers.
because if it was 100% illegal, then they wouldnt be allowed to sell to people who arent registered with Gas Safe... and would operate a system like Plumb Centre does.
but because theres that small loophole that says the homeowner can work only in their own home.. on the condition its done correctly and safely, thats 1 reason why the stuff is readily available.
But as in the quote above, working on gas in your own home.. even if it is possibly legal.. is not advised... mainly due to risk of carbon monoxide poisoning, and explosion risk.. so im not saying people should, as i recomend against it.
Same applies to electrical stuff, I know you now have part p and stuff.. but again they cant restrict the stuff because theres that little loophole that says your allowed to do electrics in your own home, provided its inspected by LAB.
they cant restrict the sale of electrical items though, because legally speaking as long as you go through LAB your allowed to carry out electrical work in your own home... same with if you have planning permission for a new home build, or extension.. electrical work would be covered by that automatically.
and you can buy gas fittings, boiler spares etc. lol.. B&Q, screwfix, toolstation springs to mind.. only realy plumbcentre that restricts is... but they cant completely restrict it, because although it is debateable and open to oppinion or interpretation.. theres nothing that says you cannot do gas work as a homeowner in your own home, providing its done properly and safety.
only doing work in other peoples homes, with or without cash involved, and doing a dangerous gas installation is illegal.. and no doubt if you did do gas work, and it went wrong you could be prosecuted for it.. not to mention it voiding your home insurance.. so its a risk .. but none the less the loophole may exist and likely does otherwise gas stuff would be completely restricted.
nobody lol
"DIY Gas Installation and Maintenance
While current law does now prohibit gas work provided the person is competent to do it safely, DIY is strongly discouraged in HSE guidance, and the use of a Corgi registered gas installer is advised fior all gas work"
Taken from,
http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/disdocs/dde14b.pdf"
anything to back that up?
netblindpaul
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Quote from:
Statutory Instrument 1998 No. 2451
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
PART B
GAS FITTINGS - GENERAL PROVISIONS
Qualification and supervision
3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.
Duty on employer
4. Where an employer or a self-employed person requires any work in relation to a gas fitting to be carried out at any place of work under his control or where an employer or self-employed person has control to any extent of work in relation to a gas fitting, he shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the person undertaking that work is, or is employed by, a member of a class of persons approved by the Health and Safety Executive under regulation 3(3) above.
Quote From:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg238.pdf
The law
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 place duties on gas
consumers, installers, suppliers and landlords. These regulations link with other
safety controls on combustion equipment, eg the Building Regulations, which are
standards for ventilation and flues. For your own protection remember:
by law anyone carrying out work on gas appliances or fittings as part
of their business must be competent and registered with the Gas Safe
Register. Always check your engineer is registered by asking to see their ID
card which has a photo of the engineer, their business registration number and
personal licence number, company name, the start and expiry date of the card
and a security hologram. The reverse of the card details what kind of
gas work the engineer is able to do. You can also call Gas Safe
Register during normal office hours on 0800 408 5500 or go to
the website www.gassaferegister.co.uk;
by law only a competent person can carry out work
on gas appliances or fittings. Do-it-yourself work on
gas appliances or fittings could be dangerous and
is likely to be illegal;
From HSE ACoP L56
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf
45 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so, whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons. Therefore, do-it-yourself installers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work. Employers of gas fitting operatives are also required under regulation 3(2) to ensure that their employees have the required competence for the work undertaken; in addition to ensuring they are properly experienced and trained (see paragraph 47), this involves ongoing monitoring of performance standards, as necessary.
So, the legal take actually is that it is NOT illegal to DIY gas as long as you can prove your competence.
The accepted method (by HSE) of proving competence is appropriate GAS Safe registration. Catch 22 for DIY?
GAS Safe have the contract to run the competent persons scheme from CORGI, however, the HSE now own the "brand" GAS safe where as CORGI was a separate entity.
As an aside from what I remember at the time of the consultation info I read suggested that NAPIT also put a bid in to run the franchise as well as CORGI the incumbent and the current franchisee Capita.
Statutory Instrument 1998 No. 2451
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
PART B
GAS FITTINGS - GENERAL PROVISIONS
Qualification and supervision
3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.
Duty on employer
4. Where an employer or a self-employed person requires any work in relation to a gas fitting to be carried out at any place of work under his control or where an employer or self-employed person has control to any extent of work in relation to a gas fitting, he shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the person undertaking that work is, or is employed by, a member of a class of persons approved by the Health and Safety Executive under regulation 3(3) above.
Quote From:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg238.pdf
The law
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 place duties on gas
consumers, installers, suppliers and landlords. These regulations link with other
safety controls on combustion equipment, eg the Building Regulations, which are
standards for ventilation and flues. For your own protection remember:
by law anyone carrying out work on gas appliances or fittings as part
of their business must be competent and registered with the Gas Safe
Register. Always check your engineer is registered by asking to see their ID
card which has a photo of the engineer, their business registration number and
personal licence number, company name, the start and expiry date of the card
and a security hologram. The reverse of the card details what kind of
gas work the engineer is able to do. You can also call Gas Safe
Register during normal office hours on 0800 408 5500 or go to
the website www.gassaferegister.co.uk;
by law only a competent person can carry out work
on gas appliances or fittings. Do-it-yourself work on
gas appliances or fittings could be dangerous and
is likely to be illegal;
From HSE ACoP L56
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf
45 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so, whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons. Therefore, do-it-yourself installers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work. Employers of gas fitting operatives are also required under regulation 3(2) to ensure that their employees have the required competence for the work undertaken; in addition to ensuring they are properly experienced and trained (see paragraph 47), this involves ongoing monitoring of performance standards, as necessary.
So, the legal take actually is that it is NOT illegal to DIY gas as long as you can prove your competence.
The accepted method (by HSE) of proving competence is appropriate GAS Safe registration. Catch 22 for DIY?
GAS Safe have the contract to run the competent persons scheme from CORGI, however, the HSE now own the "brand" GAS safe where as CORGI was a separate entity.
As an aside from what I remember at the time of the consultation info I read suggested that NAPIT also put a bid in to run the franchise as well as CORGI the incumbent and the current franchisee Capita.
Key word above "likely to be illegal" doesnt say "is illegal"
word likely is used, because without the proper knowledge it is hard for most people to do a legal gas installational in their own home.. so its more likely to be illegal instead of legal.
but again.. competetance isnt actually defined above.
and this part here,
"Therefore, do-it-yourself installers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence."
was always the case.. you cant do it for friends and family.. only in your own home as the homeowner.
I also quote,
"no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph."
Key word, No Employer, and no self employed person
and,
"by law anyone carrying out work on gas appliances or fittings as part
of their business must be competent and registered with the Gas Safe
Register. "
As part of their business.
Again still no mention of a requirement to be registered with Gas Safe in the context of a homeowner doing DIY in their own home.
Yes the accepted method of proving competence is being registered with gas safe.. but thats again only in a business/self employed/employment context....outside of that in DIY there is no definition of what defines competant, so its a case of.. do it properly to standards.. and your considered competant.. do it dangerously and if somebody has an accident you can be prosecuted for not being competant.
word likely is used, because without the proper knowledge it is hard for most people to do a legal gas installational in their own home.. so its more likely to be illegal instead of legal.
but again.. competetance isnt actually defined above.
and this part here,
"Therefore, do-it-yourself installers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence."
was always the case.. you cant do it for friends and family.. only in your own home as the homeowner.
I also quote,
"no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph."
Key word, No Employer, and no self employed person
and,
"by law anyone carrying out work on gas appliances or fittings as part
of their business must be competent and registered with the Gas Safe
Register. "
As part of their business.
Again still no mention of a requirement to be registered with Gas Safe in the context of a homeowner doing DIY in their own home.
Yes the accepted method of proving competence is being registered with gas safe.. but thats again only in a business/self employed/employment context....outside of that in DIY there is no definition of what defines competant, so its a case of.. do it properly to standards.. and your considered competant.. do it dangerously and if somebody has an accident you can be prosecuted for not being competant.
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The HSE document referred earlier was dated February 2000 and mentions Corgi.
Just thought I would paste a line from the home page of the Gas Safe website on here:
"It is against the law for anyone to do work on gas appliances in Great Britain and Isle of Man unless they are Gas Safe registered. "
Just thought I would paste a line from the home page of the Gas Safe website on here:
"It is against the law for anyone to do work on gas appliances in Great Britain and Isle of Man unless they are Gas Safe registered. "
netblindpaul
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If you refer to the whole of the HSE documents then you will see that HSE at this stage were entering into the consultation procedure for the possible replacement of CORGI, and in certain documents it states that CORGI may be replaced and any references to CORGI are taken to mean CORGI or it successors.
Also, as I see it, that quote from the GASsafe website is slightly out of context.
It IS illegal to undertake any gas works in conjunction with running a business unless GASsafe registered, that is in no doubt.
DIY is NOT definitely illegal, as long as if something goes wrong you can prove your competence in a court of law.
As I said above, this could be difficult as the generally accepted proof of competence for gas work is being GASsafe registered!
If you were then there would be no problems and the "problem" would not arise!
I will be directly in touch with GASsafe tomorrow over a rather specilist area of gas work so I will ask this question also, just to get the definitive answer from them.
I am not GASsafe registered, and have no intentions of being so at this stage also I don't do gas work, but I do come across many situations which require clarifications of legislation, I normally go directly to HSE or the relevant statutory body for this information, hence the GASsafe contact.
If you look at this GASsafe leaflet:
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf/Consumer%20Leaflet%206pp%20web%20friendly.pdf
It does not state that DIY is illegal...
Also, as I see it, that quote from the GASsafe website is slightly out of context.
It IS illegal to undertake any gas works in conjunction with running a business unless GASsafe registered, that is in no doubt.
DIY is NOT definitely illegal, as long as if something goes wrong you can prove your competence in a court of law.
As I said above, this could be difficult as the generally accepted proof of competence for gas work is being GASsafe registered!
If you were then there would be no problems and the "problem" would not arise!
I will be directly in touch with GASsafe tomorrow over a rather specilist area of gas work so I will ask this question also, just to get the definitive answer from them.
I am not GASsafe registered, and have no intentions of being so at this stage also I don't do gas work, but I do come across many situations which require clarifications of legislation, I normally go directly to HSE or the relevant statutory body for this information, hence the GASsafe contact.
If you look at this GASsafe leaflet:
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf/Consumer%20Leaflet%206pp%20web%20friendly.pdf
It does not state that DIY is illegal...
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netblindpaul
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OK,
Have spoken to GASsafe, sorry peeps, I was right...
:coat :coat :coat
DIY gas work is NOT illegal, HOWEVER, you must be able to prove competence if you do this.
GASsafe is the accepted HSE measure of competence, so if you are not, you are on your own and must be able and willing to prove your own competence.
IF you do gas work as part of a business you MUST be registered.
Please remember the HSE accepted definition of competence!
Have spoken to GASsafe, sorry peeps, I was right...
:coat :coat :coat
DIY gas work is NOT illegal, HOWEVER, you must be able to prove competence if you do this.
GASsafe is the accepted HSE measure of competence, so if you are not, you are on your own and must be able and willing to prove your own competence.
IF you do gas work as part of a business you MUST be registered.
Please remember the HSE accepted definition of competence!
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