Domestic fire alarm with fault outputs

[Kevin-5]

Can anyone suggest a wired, mains powered domestic fire alarm or mini commercial fire alarm system which in event of fault will activate a volt free output?
Need to monitor kitchen through a heat detector and 4 smoke heads.
And if possible with either self-clearing capabilities when fault removes itself i.e smoke dissipates or with an input which would silence it and another input to reset it.

Thank you

 

[kerching]

Aico
End of

 

[kerching]

Ring them

 

[Kevin-5]

Thank you.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

I have yet to find a "smoke alarm" that has the option for a remote relay that operates when there is a "Fault"
Kidde make a "surface pattress with relay" but the relay only operates when there is a fire condition.

All fire alarm panels have a fault relay that can auto reset, but if there is a fire, the panel needs to be manually reset. (Not to mention expensive) so I would say no use to you.

mini commercial fire alarm system which in event of fault will activate a volt free output?

Assume there is a fault, what would this volt free output operate?

 

[Kevin-5]

Remote monitoring purposes only. Will not operate anything in particular.
Will look into Kidde "surface pattress with relay", fire condition is one of the options I want monitoring.

 

[mort2376]

Aico do a relay base or as a separate unit I'm sure.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Aico do a relay base or as a separate unit I'm sure.

I am only saying I could not find one listed on their site. But even if they do, Kevin-5 wants to have the output connected to "fault"
For that I would suggest a wired fire alarm, but that is of no use (in this case) as Kevin-5 wants the alarm to "auto-reset" when the smoke clears, not to mention the cost.

 

[binky]

12v relay wired to the interconnect of the smokes. Not hard to knock up from a few components.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

12v relay wired to the interconnect of the smokes. Not hard to knock up from a few components.

I assume you know what the "few components" are? In that case I say your suggestion will not work, to that amends I will challenge you to build such a unit, send it to me, and I will buy two interlinked mains powered with alkaline battery back up smoke alarms and test your unit.

If it works, I will pay for the "components" and postage to me.
If it works I will buy you a few beers.

If it doesn't work, you pay for the components and postage and a cherry coke.

I suggest a Few components will be no more than £20, and let's say you have till the end of April 2022 to get it to me.

Binky, do you accept the challenge?

Terms:
You must build the unit, you can NOT use anything ready assembled (Other than the few components, relay etc)
It must work first time, every time.
You must get it to me within the next 40 days (End of April)
Only open to binky, as he said it can be done.

 

[steptoe]

I'm intrigued as to what this "fault" would be on a domestic smoke alarm,.

 

[binky]

I assume you know what the "few components" are? In that case I say your suggestion will not work, to that amends I will challenge you to build such a unit, send it to me, and I will buy two interlinked mains powered with alkaline battery back up smoke alarms and test your unit.

If it works, I will pay for the "components" and postage to me.
If it works I will buy you a few beers.

If it doesn't work, you pay for the components and postage and a cherry coke.

I suggest a Few components will be no more than £20, and let's say you have till the end of April 2022 to get it to me.

Binky, do you accept the challenge?

Terms:
You must build the unit, you can NOT use anything ready assembled (Other than the few components, relay etc)
It must work first time, every time.
You must get it to me within the next 40 days (End of April)
Only open to binky, as he said it can be done.

If you don't know how to spec relays that's your problem. In the meantime I have a funeral to plan anoungst many other things, father having died on Thursday

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

If you don't know how to spec relays that's your problem. In the meantime I have a funeral to plan anoungst many other things, father having died on Thursday

Sorry for your loss, I really am, we had the funeral for my Mother in January. (Yes, I had a mother)

How is anyone to know you have suffered a bereavement? They do not know unless they are told, which you have now done.


I have no problem with relays. I have often seen folk say / similar to "Oh it's easy you can do that with a few components" but when challenged they can not do it.

I suggest your family need you more at this time, take care of them, and we will see you some time later.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

I'm intrigued as to what this "fault" would be on a domestic smoke alarm

I have no idea either, Kevin-5 asked for it,

in event of fault will activate a volt free output?

...................unless he is misunderstanding?

 

[binky]

Sorry for your loss, I really am, we had the funeral for my Mother in January. (Yes, I had a mother)

How is anyone to know you have suffered a bereavement? They do not know unless they are told, which you have now done.


I have no problem with relays. I have often seen folk say / similar to "Oh it's easy you can do that with a few components" but when challenged they can not do it.

I suggest your family need you more at this time, take care of them, and we will see you some time later.

You are forgiven, and apologies for being so rude, I'm not exactly in a good mood at the moment. However, as mod on this 'friendly' forum posting antagonising replies is not setting a good example to others. A simple 'what are you thinking of' question, or the like, would serve us all far better.

Now, I am no expert on all things relay as it's been rather a long time since I used to build test gear, when 555 timers were the bees knees and seemed to be in everything. However, I'm guessing by fault the OP is referring to false alarm trigger, ie burn't the toast, and having triggered the detector is looking to control something else, although they havn't said what exactly they hope to achieve. So a mains powered relay , Normally Open, with a 12V control coil connected to the interlink of the smokes (I believe the interlink is 12v not 240V) should do the job provided what they are trying to control is 240V of course. The relay being non-latching so that when the false trigger is cleared the relay returns to N.O. state ie auto resets.

Last time a did anything like that was about 15years ago, and I can't quite think what I fitted it for, but may have been an old style retrofit telephone autodial connected to an alarm panel. If the OP is just looking to remote silence interlinked detectors AICO already do a products for this, which I believe even has a phone app these days, which will achieve this without home made gadgets. We need more info.

 

[Fleeting]

I don't know what is trying to be achieved here by detecting a 'fault'. As above if it is burnt toast then said fault may well dissipate but the detector is not seeing a fault it is operating as it should. Why would you have a smoke detector in or near a kitchen it is bound to activate. The whole point of automatic detection is to alert persons to a possible fire situation. The link between Part 6 detectors is approximately 9vdc and I am not sure I would be creating an ad hoc set up which may well be outside the scope of BS5339:6 when the intention of such systems is the protection of life.

 

[Kevin-5]

Fault = Panel goes to fault- Sounders triggered - alarm goes off

 

[Kevin-5]

12v relay wired to the interconnect of the smokes. Not hard to knock up from a few components.

I will give this a try. Looks like best solution so far, Maybe use a spare interconnected sounder to engage a relay for the output.
Resetting it, through an input still a question unless provided by panel itself.
To my knowledge domestic fire alarms are self-ressetting usually.

 

[kerching]

The term Fault is very wide reaching
Open circuit
Short circuit
Mains fail
Battery fail
Detector removed
Comms fail

What level of fault are you trying to detect

 

[Fleeting]

Fault = Panel goes to fault- Sounders triggered - alarm goes off

You say 'panel' so are you looking at a BS5839:6 Grade A system or a BS5839:1 system. You want the panel to go into fault which then activates the sounders so I still don't understand this 'fault' scenario because any conventional system will activate but why this 'fault' scenario I still have no idea what you are trying to achieve. If you do set up whatever you are trying to achieve what will the Certification state if it is out scope from BS5839.