Dyson Ball Vacuum cleaners

[Evans Electric]

Anyone had any issues with these things.   ?

Customer has a problem with one tripping the RCD .    There are two boards at the property , its OK in the Schneider board but trips the  RCD in the MK board .  

Board is the older Sentry , main switch is 80A x 30mA  RCD   (LN 5780)  two module  .  RCD tests were OK , socket circuit was OK .

Vacuum is double insulated ,  only thing I noticed was , it starts with right old kick &  flicks the lights down on starting.  

Theres no messing , plug it in , hit the button on the vac & zonk ! its tripped.

These RCD s are designed to handle various kinds of DC ripples & smoothies etc  but without an earth on the appliance I don't get it TBH .

 

[apprentice87]

Neutral/earth fault somewhere???

Think i will add to that..

Earth, is basically in parallel with neutral, with them joined either at the cutout or back at the substation. Say you have a fault neutral/earth after the RCD. You switch on something that pulls a large current, like your motor starting, and some of the current makes it back to source down the earth, INSTEAD of the neutral, unbalances the RCD, and off it trips!!! Will not matter if it is a class 2 appliance as this is not the route the current takes, [unless the appliance is faulty] Tis a fault in the fixed wiring...

TNCS?????

john..

 

[Evans Electric]

Interesting .  I did all the usual tests on the ring .....but based on what you suggest,  there could be a spiked/ nailed neutral somewhere. 

Which could be a nightmare ....very posh house , everywhere  imaculate . 

 

[apprentice87]

That is the thing... The actual circuit that trips can be fine, as fault in ANY of the other circuits will have the same effect. Remember ALL the earths are connected together at the MET, and ALL the neutrals are connected together at the neutral bar. Soooooo, a neutral/earth fault in any of the "other" circuits, anywhere in the entire installation, can and will, trip your "good" circuit...

Global IR test needed???

john..

 

[binky]

I've had dysons for years with no trouble whatsoever. Might just be knackered if it's an old one?

Lights dimming suggests loose connection to me or lettuced set-up of ccts. I did also have a socket wired off the lights once - vacuum cleaner tripped it every time

 

[Doc Hudson]

I would agree with Apprentice, probably a wiring defect or appliance connected somewhere off the old MK board and the Dyson is just generating a bit more current to push it over the brink. The fact that it works fine off the other board suggest its the board not the Dyson that's faulty. You need some other high current appliance to try in the MK circuits. Have you got an old 3kw fan heater you could plug in with a few 500w halogen work lamps.

Doc H. 

 

[ProDave]

+1 for N-E fault somewhere.

Not a dead short otherise it would trip when you turn on a small load, but leakage somewhere, so a small portioon of the return current will go to earth not neutral.  Then the high switch on surge of the dyson creates just enough imballance to trip it.

What's the loop impedence of the supply? is that a bit on the high side so volt drop on a big load is more noticable? we have the ball dyson and never noticed the lights flicker at switch on.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks for those replies guys ,  some good points there,   I'll have to look closer at it .      Gone there to do some other stuff and that was dropped on me TBH .   

 

[Sidewinder]

Another thing I would have a pop at would be a leakage current check try and do it with a max capture, and see if it spikes when the Dyson starts up?

 

[Marvo]

If you're going on that approach then I'd suggest max capture of global leakage at the RCD itself because the Dyson could be sparking and the resulting noise and spikes might be getting filtered to earth by other equipment or appliances that have built in noise/surge arrestors.

 

[Sidewinder]

If you're going on that approach then I'd suggest max capture of global leakage at the RCD itself because the Dyson could be sparking and the resulting noise and spikes might be getting filtered to earth by other equipment or appliances that have built in noise/surge arrestors.

Where else would it be worthwhile doing leakage that is going to affect the RCD?

There is little if an point in trying to capture leakage that could be affecting an RCD, except for that at the RCD itself, otherwise you are simply taking a nonsense measurement wrt potential RCD tripping.

 

[Murdoch]

Last year I spent a while tracking down a fault in an new loft conversion - a hi integrity CU.

The loft lights and all the smokes were on a RCBO

If the customer was cooking and or washing, the lighting RCBO would trip. The kitchen/utility sockets were on RCD1 as was the cooker.

Using my trusty earth leakage tester, I could see that the combined leakage across the kitchen sockets & cooker was about 20mA. The IR for the cables was all good but as soon as the appliances were in use the problems started.

The leakage across the lighting circuit was about 7mA - loads of LED's etc, etc

In the end, I located a smoke alarm "signal cable to earth fault between 2 of the smokes! Not a neutral to earth, not a live to earth. Aico said it wouldn't trip the RCBO however, the L-E was good, the N-E was good, the Signal to E was a dead short!

I disconnected the signal cable at both smokes and hey presto the problem disappeared.

Had me scratching my head for a while and no testing at the CU would have revealed this!  Using the earth leakage meter I could see that when the smokes were plugged back in the leakage rose!

A fun one, but very frustrating!