EICR prosecution

[Mike.J]

Have not seen this on the Forum so thought it may be of interest:

PRESS RELEASE: ELECTRICIAN’S GUILTY PLEA OVER REPORT SIGNING OFF UNSATISFACTORY ELECTRICS
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A Pembrokeshire electrician has pleaded guilty to supplying a report claiming the electrics in a household property were satisfactory when they were not.
The case was brought by Pembrokeshire County Council Trading Standards and heard by Judge Huw Rees at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court on Monday 20th September 2021.
Mark Cummins trading as M C Electrics from Haverfordwest was commissioned by the vendor of a Milford Haven property in November 2018 to inspect and issue a condition report of the electrics in the property.
The Court heard that Mr Cummins took less than an hour to do the inspection and issued an Electrical Installation Condition Report to the vendor the same day, containing the written statement describing the electrics in the property as “satisfactory”.
He told the vendor a light fitting in the downstairs utility and shower room needed to be replaced but his report did not list any concerns despite estimating the electrics to be 40 years old. He charged the vendor for the report.
In January 2019 the property was sold to the current owner Nia Evans.
Ms Evans later contracted local electrician John Morley to install additional wall sockets prior to moving in.
After a visual inspection and conducting some tests, Mr Morley concluded that the electrics were unsatisfactory, advising of a complete re-wire and to report the matter to STROMA, the certification body of which Mr Cummins was a member at the time.
Pembrokeshire Trading Standards arranged for Matthew Williams, a Council electrician, to carry out an inspection of the electrics at the property in July 2019.
His detailed report also concluded that the installation was unsatisfactory. Ms Evans has consequently still not moved in to the property.
Mr Cummins pleaded guilty to an offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 of engaging in a commercial practice which was misleading action, by describing the general condition of the electrical installation of a property as satisfactory which was untruthful.
He was fined £1,500 and ordered to pay £1000 contribution towards costs and £100 statutory surcharge payment.
The Judge also commended the local authority for the way it approached the case.
Sandra McSparron, Pembrokeshire County Council Lead Trading Standards Officer, said: “Homeowners and buyers put their faith in the services of electricians and other professionals to deliver accurate and truthful reports, in order to make important and informed decisions. Mr Cummins report was a key factor in the decision to purchase in this case.
“I am concerned that subsequent reports identified potentially serious non compliances in the property.
“I hope this prosecution sends a message out to all traders in these fields. I would like to express gratitude to all the witnesses for their assistance.”
Cllr Cris Tomos, the Council Cabinet Member for Public Protection commended everyone involved for bringing the case to court.
“When members of the public request the input of professionals they deserve to be able to rely on the information received.
“This is even more important particularly when dealing with potentially hazardous situations such as unsatisfactory electrics.
“I am pleased that the Authority was able to see this case through to a successful prosecution and would like to underline our gratitude to the witnesses.”

Note that the prosecution was brought under the Consumer protection act.

 

[Andy™]

wonder what the outcome would have been if he had pleaded not guilty? would there have been enough evidence etc for him to be found guilty?

 

[mainline]

wonder what the outcome would have been if he had pleaded not guilty? would there have been enough evidence etc for him to be found guilty?

Without seeing the EICR then It's hard to say, but if there were a few F1s etc then he would have been much worse off pleading not guilty.

 

[Mike.J]

An EICR in a less than an hour, what other conclusion can there be.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

An EICR in a less than an hour, what other conclusion can there be.

Agreed..

But the problem is that Joe-Public haven't got a clue what a proper EICR's actually is..
How long it should take... Or.. how much it should cost..

It would be easier if the NICEIC's, Stroma's, Napit's etc.. were obliged to fund promotion to advertise the realities of EICR's across numerous platforms..
Including TV, Radio and the various flavours of internet/social media..

 

[mainline]

An EICR in a less than an hour, what other conclusion can there be.

You can tell most of the time if an installation is going to be unsatisfactory within about 10 mins.
The rest of the time spent is finding out how unsatisfactory it is.

 

[Sparksfly]

Agreed..

But the problem is that Joe-Public haven't got a clue what a proper EICR's actually is..
How long it should take... Or.. how much it should cost..

It would be easier if the NICEIC's, Stroma's, Napit's etc.. were obliged to fund promotion to advertise the realities of EICR's across numerous platforms..
Including TV, Radio and the various flavours of internet/social media..

Unfortunately they are too busy promoting themselves whilst taking membership monies....anyhow there is no (as far as I know) regulatory electrical body that oversees them all.

 

[Mike.J]

That is the whole problem, electricians do not need to have qualifications to work or be a member of a particular authoritative body/institute/association, so there are numerous organisations out there vying for you to sign into and none of them are statute or have royal assent.

 

[Andy™]

exactly. usually, the best youll get is a prosecution for claiming to be a member of them when you are not. otherwise do what you want

 

[mainline]

exactly. usually, the best youll get is a prosecution for claiming to be a member of them when you are not. otherwise do what you want

I think i read somewhere that they have made it a little more difficult to become part p registered, but don't quote me on it.
What they should do is have a good clean up of the ones that are registered already

 

[Andy™]

I think i read somewhere that they have made it a little more difficult to become part p but don't quote me on it.
What they should do is have a good clean up of the ones that are registered already

part P is a waste of time anyway and should be scrapped. along with all the scams. not likely theyll do anything about dodgy work by their members. after all, that would be admitting they have incompenant members who they have assessed as being competant...

 

[Mike.J]

exactly. usually, the best youll get is a prosecution for claiming to be a member of them when you are not. otherwise do what you want

Except that prosecution is acting under false pretences and nothing to do with being a competent electrician.

Until such time as a recognised qualification to be an electrician has been passed through the statute has royal assent and becomes law nothing will change.

As a discussion point why do others think there isn't a recognised legally required qualification?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

As a discussion point why do others think there isn't a recognised legally required qualification?

Not enough serious injuries and/or fatalities per year, due to poor electrical work, to warrant the expense of additional red-tape establishing a national formal recognised qualification....

Plus a large proportion of joe-public think electrical work is a relatively easy DIY task, as they have seen stuff to buy in B&Q, Wickes, Homebase etc..
and they can google a few YouTube video's if they get stuck!
(They are more worried about plumbing an outside tap, than wiring an outdoor socket).

So there is no public demand to change the current requirements...
and they don't want to be prevented from doing DIY!

So no demand to implement new legislation!!

 

[Mike.J]

Conversely you could say the same about Architects and Structural Engineers, but they do have a legally recognised body and qualifications, that does not stop Joe on the street building what they like, but they do get taken to court if they are found out by the local council for contravening planning acts, how many prosecutions have there been by the council for contravening part P.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Conversely you could say the same about Architects and Structural Engineers, but they do have a legally recognised body and qualifications, that does not stop Joe on the street building what they like, but they do get taken to court if they are found out by the local council for contravening planning acts, how many prosecutions have there been by the council for contravening part P.

No you couldn't...
From my perspective there are FAR more building related injuries than electrical related injuries....
e.g. THIS WEEK..
https://news.sky.com/story/i-though...pse-at-two-more-years-bar-in-hackney-12542272

You don't often see Sky News stories about injury due to dodgy electrics...?

Plus of course that is not even considering a certain Tower in London with dubious cladding material!!!

The basic reality is that NOT enough people DIE due to dodgy electrics..

Whereas, dodgy Gas can wipe out your own house plus a few neighbours as well.

 

[BorisJ]

I think i read somewhere that they have made it a little more difficult to become part p but don't quote me on it.

That makes no sence.
Part P is a building regulation, nothing more. You cannot become a building regulation.

 

[Mike.J]

No you couldn't...
From my perspective there are FAR more building related injuries than electrical related injuries....
e.g. THIS WEEK..
https://news.sky.com/story/i-though...pse-at-two-more-years-bar-in-hackney-12542272

Have a close look at that floor collapse, there are obvious structural faults in its construction that indicate there wasn't a Structure Engineer or Architect involved in its design, I will leave you to speculate who designed it.

 

[UNG]

But the problem is that Joe-Public haven't got a clue what a proper EICR's actually is..

It is not just joe public who haven't got a clue what a proper EICR is or what a proper report should look like

As an example Ofsted ask to see evidence of gas and electrical checks during their inspections having challenged one of the Ofted inspectors having previously found a day nursery that had a dodgy incomplete EICR or PIR as it was back then the inspector I spoke to had no idea what a proper EICR should look like or how to read it, begs the question how safe are your kids when you leave them at nursery

How long it should take... Or.. how much it should cost..

How do you set a target time when installations can have so many variables which then affects the overall cost of the EICR, once a standard time / price is published how do you justify a longer time or higher price

It would be easier if the NICEIC's, Stroma's, Napit's etc.. were obliged to fund promotion to advertise the realities of EICR's across numerous platforms..
Including TV, Radio and the various flavours of internet/social media..

If they were to promote and advertise the do's and don't of EICR's how many would take any notice and how well would it be understood

The whole subject of EICR's and the wider electrical industry for that matter needs a rethink, the perception of having passed the 2391 it empowers you to carry out EICR's without any other qualifications, knowledge or experience is one of the first things that needs addressing

With regard to the NICEIC etc, are they all really fit for purpose, yes they assess the QS and check 3 - 4 jobs for each registered contractor whether that contractor has 1 or a 101 operatives so it is always probable in a company with a number of operatives EICR's could be carried out by unassessed operatives who may or may not have the appropriate qualifications, skill or knowledge for the task. Throw in the dodgy instalation work of some of the CPS registered outfits and the perfect storm is on us as to whether they give the public any protection at all

 

[mainline]

That makes no sence.
Part P is a building regulation, nothing more. You cannot become a building regulation.

I'm sure there are some who can make sense of what I meant.

 

[Mike.J]

Its all very well saying you can't give a price for an EICR because of all the variables, but this would apply to all trades people in all trades, what is needed is a guide line on an EICR with caveats on additional work, this would allow the customer to have an idea if they are being ripped off or hiring Eddy Murphy.