EICR - Shallow Back Box Depth

[Spades]

Hello,

My house has 25mm back boxes throughout, but I’ve noticed the previous owner has installed sockets and switches that seem to suggest/specify 35mm minimum. The sockets and switches do still fit flush on the wall, just that it is incredibly tight behind so the wiring has been routed meticulously to allow it to just about fit.

Our buyers are requesting an EIRC report to be done and I would like to know simply, will this been seen as a fail or a fault? Is this sort of thing specifically checked?

Thank you

 

[Murdoch]

A C2 could only be noted if the cables are damaged ……


and it’s an EICR

and it’s up to the buyers to commission and pay for the report.

 

[Spades]

Hi Murdoch, thank you for the reply. The buyer is paying for the report, but I’m just trying to work if I should pay someone to put spacers in there if they are going fail me on it.

So my understanding is, it can be a tight fit, it can be below the recommended back box depth, but as long as the wires aren’t damaged then it won’t raise an warning/issue.

 

[Andy™]

as long as it fits in the box i wouldnt even comment on it

 

[Murdoch]

Hi Murdoch, thank you for the reply. The buyer is paying for the report, but I’m just trying to work if I should pay someone to put spacers in there if they are going fail me on it.

So my understanding is, it can be a tight fit, it can be below the recommended back box depth, but as long as the wires aren’t damaged then it won’t raise an warning/issue.

sit tight and see what happens next …..

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi Murdoch, thank you for the reply. The buyer is paying for the report, but I’m just trying to work if I should pay someone to put spacers in there if they are going fail me on it.

So my understanding is, it can be a tight fit, it can be below the recommended back box depth, but as long as the wires aren’t damaged then it won’t raise an warning/issue.

An EICR does not return a Pass or Fail result..
The overall result is either the installation is Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory for continued use.

Any observations are noted with recommendation codes..
Observations that make an installation unsatisfactory are items that are Immediately or Potentially dangerous.

Examples of typical codes can be found in a free to download PDF.
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/kz3lqwng/best-practice-guide-4-issue-6.pdf#:~:text=Best Practice Guide 4 The aim of this,periodic inspection and testing of an electrical installation

Whilst generally intended for use by persons carrying out an EICR it may help you understand a bit more about the type of checks and tests done during a periodic inspection.

Assuming no cables are damaged and all terminations are secure, I cannot see how your example could be considered a C1 or C2?
One simple remedy is to just replace all the accessory fronts with items suitable for 25mm boxes... Or as you say buy some spacers.. So hardly an immediate or potential danger!

Are your items USB sockets? there are various manufactures who make USB sockets that don't need a 35mm box.

 

[Murdoch]

Also if you are there when the EICR is done. I would say all you need to do is to help the inspector know where the fuseboard and accessories are (loft, garage, garden etc).

Its not your job to comment on ANY issues you think there are.

 

[MegOmz]

Hi - i have never had an unsatisfactory EICR because of shallow back box. If it is unsatisfactory it won’t be on the back boxes

 

[Andy™]

Hi - i have never had an unsatisfactory EICR because of shallow back box. If it is unsatisfactory it won’t be on the back boxes

if its shallow enough that the socket doesn't go back far enough then it would be unsatisfactory

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

if its shallow enough that the socket doesn't go back far enough then it would be unsatisfactory

I have seen someone try to ram a socket outlet into a 16mm back box!!

 

[Murdoch]

I have seen someone try to ram a socket outlet into a 16mm back box!!

I have come across one like that on the end of a radial, so just one cable

I was doing some other work so the customer let me improve it to a 35 mm box

 

[MegOmz]

if its shallow enough that the socket doesn't go back far enough then it would be unsatisfactory

Correct chap - access to live parts but as I said I have never done an EICR where I have seen this.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

On a side note.... I have also come across accessories with NO back-box...

Not even the old wooden type back box...
Just no box at all, bit of plaster & brick chipped away, couple of rawlplugs and some 1"x6 wood screws!!

But.. which is worse... No back-box or Too shallow back-box?????
or are they equally poor???

Votes on a postcard to "PO Box: Who Gives A Fig at 23:30 on a Tuesday"!!!

 

[kerching]

It used to be that accessories had to have their exposed terminals "enclosed within material of ignitability characteristic P"
Brick and plaster doesn't burn
However this doesn't help,with earthing the box/terminating the earth

This is for mother and elder child only

 

[Mike P]

I have had a case where the staff in a chemist where getting mild electrick shocks on a multi way switch plate. The box was shallow with a lot of cables and a shallow back box. I replaced back box with a deeper one, problem solved, so when cables are compressed it can transfer through the switch/socket.

 

[Geoff1946]

I suggest that there was likely a sharp screw head piercing insulation, but more importantly an absent earth connection.

 

[BorisJ]

It used to be that accessories had to have their exposed terminals "enclosed within material of ignitability characteristic P"
Brick and plaster doesn't burn
However this doesn't help,with earthing the box/terminating the earth

Terminate the earth in the accessory as normal.

 

[Mike P]

I suggest that there was likely a sharp screw head piercing insulation, but more importantly an absent earth connection.

A plastic face plate. It was screwed so tightly down onto the conductors. No sign of insulation damage with back box earthed.

 

[binky]

I have had a case where the staff in a chemist where getting mild electrick shocks on a multi way switch plate. The box was shallow with a lot of cables and a shallow back box. I replaced back box with a deeper one, problem solved, so when cables are compressed it can transfer through the switch/socket.

Otherwise known as a compression fault ie squeezing the insulation harf enough to reduce its insulation capabilities, but not actually piercing it.