We charge £480 inc Vat for a average house c/unit change , thats London
EICR Unsatisfactory - need advice
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pewter
Conspiracy Theorist™
I thought,
EICR is done to current regs,
C3 - if it conforms to original install but not to current, so is advisary. like a plastic consumer unit.
C2 - if there is 2 step to danger, like no CPC to a socket, wrong sized MCB etc
C1 - immidiate danger / risk of electric shock.
C3 - Satisfactory
C2 - Unsatisfactory
C1 - Unsatisfactory - duty of care to make it safe when discovered, by de-energising or rectifying. (if the customer turns it on after i go its up to them)
If the report is on headed peper like NICEIC i would complain to them that the inspector is wrong, show them a copy and they should agree. I would also contact who did the report.
£800 might be a bit heavy on the price as he has done a EICR already, i have heard British gas charge more.
If it was in London, somewhere sillly for parking, or rotten customer i would double my price also.
I think in best practice guide or something like that consumer unit change procedure reccommends EICR one day and change the board after that. That way you know if any problems might happen with RCDs, what circuits are good, if rings need to be turned into 2 radials etc, so you have the right board and parts for the job.
In reality i think most of us do it in a day for around £400+ (more if fancy parts like RCBOs are used etc) in the south.
My costs on a board change at the mo are
£100 Schneider easy9+ board and a couple extra MCBs
£10 Cable entry gland
£25 Tails
£15 Henly block
£5 stuffing glands
£5 Earth block
£5 Earth
£10 trunking
£5 Part-p notification and insurance
I get some stuff a little cheaper, but its what i allow for at least.
Looking at the job, Getting the parts, doing the job, certificate and invoice for the job can easily take 10 hours of my time.
EICR is done to current regs,
C3 - if it conforms to original install but not to current, so is advisary. like a plastic consumer unit.
C2 - if there is 2 step to danger, like no CPC to a socket, wrong sized MCB etc
C1 - immidiate danger / risk of electric shock.
C3 - Satisfactory
C2 - Unsatisfactory
C1 - Unsatisfactory - duty of care to make it safe when discovered, by de-energising or rectifying. (if the customer turns it on after i go its up to them)
If the report is on headed peper like NICEIC i would complain to them that the inspector is wrong, show them a copy and they should agree. I would also contact who did the report.
£800 might be a bit heavy on the price as he has done a EICR already, i have heard British gas charge more.
If it was in London, somewhere sillly for parking, or rotten customer i would double my price also.
I think in best practice guide or something like that consumer unit change procedure reccommends EICR one day and change the board after that. That way you know if any problems might happen with RCDs, what circuits are good, if rings need to be turned into 2 radials etc, so you have the right board and parts for the job.
In reality i think most of us do it in a day for around £400+ (more if fancy parts like RCBOs are used etc) in the south.
My costs on a board change at the mo are
£100 Schneider easy9+ board and a couple extra MCBs
£10 Cable entry gland
£25 Tails
£15 Henly block
£5 stuffing glands
£5 Earth block
£5 Earth
£10 trunking
£5 Part-p notification and insurance
I get some stuff a little cheaper, but its what i allow for at least.
Looking at the job, Getting the parts, doing the job, certificate and invoice for the job can easily take 10 hours of my time.
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flexible leads eg kettle, and gas hob - pototentially nasty! From memory no socket is suppossed to be closer than 300mm, think that is building regs rather than electrical regs.
From IET Electricians Guide to Building Regulations 2015
5.2.2 Location of accessories in kitchens
General guidance can be provided as follows:
(a) Wiring accessories (for example, socket-outlets, switches) should be permanently and securely fixed and readily accessible.
Accessories and electrical equipment such as socket-outlets and under-cupboard lighting can be fixed to fitted kitchen units provided that they are securely fixed to rigid parts of the units that are not demountable or otherwise liable to be disturbed in normal service. Account should be made for the accessibility for inspection, testing and maintenance, and provision of adequate protection against damage (for example, by impact or water) for the accessories, equipment and associated wiring.
(b) Cooker control switches, extractor fan switches, etc. should not be mounted so that it is necessary to lean or reach over gas or electric hobs for their operation.
(c) Socket-outlets should be installed a minimum of 450 mm from the floor.
(d) Accessories should be installed a minimum of 300 mm from the edge of kitchen sinks and draining boards to reduce the risk of being splashed.
(e) Socket-outlets supplying washing machines and dishwashers, etc. should be positioned so that water that may drip from plumbing or the equipment is unlikely to affect the socket-outlet or plug.
(f) To prevent damage to the plug and flexible cable on insertion and withdrawal the centre of a socket-outlet should be a minimum of 150 mm above the work surface.
(g) Socket-outlets supplying appliances pushed under a work surface, e.g. dishwashers, tumble dryers and fridges, should be accessible when the appliance is pulled out.
(h) Appliances built into kitchen furniture (integrated appliances) should be connected to a socket-outlet or fused connection unit that is readily accessible when the appliance is in place and in normal use, or be supplied from a socket-outlet or other connecting device controlled by a readily accessible double-pole switch or switched fused connection unit.
(i) Light switches should be readily accessible.
(j) Cooker hoods should be 650 mm to 700 mm above the hob surface, subject to (k); see section 10.5 for extract requirements.
(k) Installers shall take account of manufacturer's instructions.
Figure 5.2.2 Kitchen installation
5.2.2 Location of accessories in kitchens
General guidance can be provided as follows:
(a) Wiring accessories (for example, socket-outlets, switches) should be permanently and securely fixed and readily accessible.
Accessories and electrical equipment such as socket-outlets and under-cupboard lighting can be fixed to fitted kitchen units provided that they are securely fixed to rigid parts of the units that are not demountable or otherwise liable to be disturbed in normal service. Account should be made for the accessibility for inspection, testing and maintenance, and provision of adequate protection against damage (for example, by impact or water) for the accessories, equipment and associated wiring.
(b) Cooker control switches, extractor fan switches, etc. should not be mounted so that it is necessary to lean or reach over gas or electric hobs for their operation.
(c) Socket-outlets should be installed a minimum of 450 mm from the floor.
(d) Accessories should be installed a minimum of 300 mm from the edge of kitchen sinks and draining boards to reduce the risk of being splashed.
(e) Socket-outlets supplying washing machines and dishwashers, etc. should be positioned so that water that may drip from plumbing or the equipment is unlikely to affect the socket-outlet or plug.
(f) To prevent damage to the plug and flexible cable on insertion and withdrawal the centre of a socket-outlet should be a minimum of 150 mm above the work surface.
(g) Socket-outlets supplying appliances pushed under a work surface, e.g. dishwashers, tumble dryers and fridges, should be accessible when the appliance is pulled out.
(h) Appliances built into kitchen furniture (integrated appliances) should be connected to a socket-outlet or fused connection unit that is readily accessible when the appliance is in place and in normal use, or be supplied from a socket-outlet or other connecting device controlled by a readily accessible double-pole switch or switched fused connection unit.
(i) Light switches should be readily accessible.
(j) Cooker hoods should be 650 mm to 700 mm above the hob surface, subject to (k); see section 10.5 for extract requirements.
(k) Installers shall take account of manufacturer's instructions.
Figure 5.2.2 Kitchen installation
So only 100mm from hob edges then? Like Binky Ive always thought the 300mm applied to both sinks and hobs, and have always installed accordingly.
Every days a school day.
**edit** Looking at the pic on the OP Id say that's less than 100mm away
Every days a school day.
**edit** Looking at the pic on the OP Id say that's less than 100mm away
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I didn't know for sure either Sproc, that's why I looked it up!!! 
Just picking up on this one.... Sounds like this may be a TT install (can we have a picture of the meter and cut-out?) as normally* in a TN system an RCD is not needed for fault protection. If indeed it is TT then a C2 would be justified here (but could be remedied by a 100mA type S device upstream of the board)
* Poor design practice instances are an exception... but its not going to be the case in a simple domestic with type 1 breakers
OK, so the cooker outlet is too close to the edge of the hob, but that is NOT a C2, C3, yes, C2, no.
In fact with the information I can see in the posts so far, none of those should be C2's, that is either someone looking for work, doesn't know what they are doing, or overdoing things for the buyer.
This link:
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100740439/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4-.pdf
Will get you a pdf of "industry" guidance on codes, it is written for professionals, but, it is quite easy to understand.
OP, Can you post a picture of the "electricity board" fuse where the cable comes into the property, before the electricity meter please?
If you do not have an earth supplied by the DNO, i.e. a TN-S or TN-C-S system, then you may have an earth rod at the property (TT), in which case then the circuits without an RCD would probably need one.
Can you post, suitably redacted for privacy a copy of the EICR?
The supply type should be on that, i.e. TN-S, TN-C-S, or TT.
Phoenix, you beat me to it whilst typing!
In fact with the information I can see in the posts so far, none of those should be C2's, that is either someone looking for work, doesn't know what they are doing, or overdoing things for the buyer.
This link:
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100740439/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4-.pdf
Will get you a pdf of "industry" guidance on codes, it is written for professionals, but, it is quite easy to understand.
OP, Can you post a picture of the "electricity board" fuse where the cable comes into the property, before the electricity meter please?
If you do not have an earth supplied by the DNO, i.e. a TN-S or TN-C-S system, then you may have an earth rod at the property (TT), in which case then the circuits without an RCD would probably need one.
Can you post, suitably redacted for privacy a copy of the EICR?
The supply type should be on that, i.e. TN-S, TN-C-S, or TT.
Phoenix, you beat me to it whilst typing!
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Not too different to my rates......and I'm in Surrey
My rate to change the board for an AMD3 with RCBO's, fully tested and Part P would be £450
However ALL my CU changes include the following caveat
"NB: If problems are detected during the fuseboard change additional work may be required. Such issues and associated costs will be discussed with you, prior to being implemented"
Never had this questioned before work is done, nor on the rare occasion extras are required!
yep, i can see that. in which case its not as though earlier on about potentially being required because its a TT system.
can we see the schedule of tests? more specifically, the value under Zs for the 2 circuits on the non-RCD side
Rob_the_rich
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Seems to me the simplest solution is to fit an external RCD on the lighting circuit, in an enclosure next to the CU, and change the cooker switch to one without a socket, as said earlier (or glue one of those socket covers onto it )
If the RCCB side were not already fully loaded (63A), the busbars might be able to be swapped to create more ways on the RCD protected side, just a thought.
)If the RCCB side were not already fully loaded (63A), the busbars might be able to be swapped to create more ways on the RCD protected side, just a thought.
Rob_the_rich
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There are no regulations under 4.19, 4.20 they don't exist
Nor 5.12.3, there is a 512 but no 3 after it.
Nor is there anything under 8.1, there is no part 8.
OP are you sure you copied the regulation numbers down correctly? Else it seems these Regs have been invented.
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Rob,
I don't think that these are reg numbers, I think that they are just reference numbers on the inspection schedule, e.g. on my current EasyCert DEICR form the points numbered 4.19 & 4.20 are 4.18 & 4.19, there is a 5.12.3 too.
As follows...
4.0 CONSUMER UNIT(S) / DISTRIBUTION BOARD(S)
4.18 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.9; 411.5.2; 531.2)
4.19 RCD(s) provided for additional protection - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)
5.0 FINAL CIRCUITS
5.12.3 For cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50mm (522.6.202; 522.6.203)
8.0 LOCATION(S) CONTAINING A BATH OR SHOWER
8.1 Additional protection for all low voltage (LV) circuits by RCD not exceeding 30mA (701.411.3.3)
I don't think that these are reg numbers, I think that they are just reference numbers on the inspection schedule, e.g. on my current EasyCert DEICR form the points numbered 4.19 & 4.20 are 4.18 & 4.19, there is a 5.12.3 too.
As follows...
4.0 CONSUMER UNIT(S) / DISTRIBUTION BOARD(S)
4.18 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.9; 411.5.2; 531.2)
4.19 RCD(s) provided for additional protection - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)
5.0 FINAL CIRCUITS
5.12.3 For cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50mm (522.6.202; 522.6.203)
8.0 LOCATION(S) CONTAINING A BATH OR SHOWER
8.1 Additional protection for all low voltage (LV) circuits by RCD not exceeding 30mA (701.411.3.3)
Rob_the_rich
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Ah, that makes sense. Thanks SW
If you look to the IET model forms the points are similarly numbered, from the IET pdf of the torms below:
4.0 CONSUMER UNIT(S) / DISTRIBUTION BOARD(S)
4.18 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.9; 411.5.2; 531.2)
4.19 RCD(s) provided for additional protection - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)
5.12 Provision of additional protection by RCD not exceeding 30 mA:
for all socket-outlets of rating 20 A or less, unless an exception is permitted (411.3.3) (indent 1)
for supply to mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) (indent 2)
for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202; 522.6.203) (indent 3)
The IET model forms then vary from the EasyCert versions.
4.0 CONSUMER UNIT(S) / DISTRIBUTION BOARD(S)
4.18 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.9; 411.5.2; 531.2)
4.19 RCD(s) provided for additional protection - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1)
5.12 Provision of additional protection by RCD not exceeding 30 mA:
for all socket-outlets of rating 20 A or less, unless an exception is permitted (411.3.3) (indent 1)
for supply to mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) (indent 2)
for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202; 522.6.203) (indent 3)
The IET model forms then vary from the EasyCert versions.
Back to the cooker isolator .... change it to one which doesn't have a socket and that's that issue out of the way.
If you do contact the NICEIC, would you please update this thread as it might make interesting reading....
Problems with EICR's is that if you inspect to the 17th ed AMD 3, then nearly ALL properties could fail an inspection - which is sheer madness.
If you do contact the NICEIC, would you please update this thread as it might make interesting reading....
Problems with EICR's is that if you inspect to the 17th ed AMD 3, then nearly ALL properties could fail an inspection - which is sheer madness.
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