Electrical Installation Condition Report - Bathroom light

[CinnamonDonkey]

   7 minutes ago,  Slowhand said: 

11th edition of the regs covers the years 1939 to 1948.

That makes it 69 years out of date.

Slightly more useful in this scenario than my 10th edition.

LOL. I'm not that old, yet - I'm 45, I done my training about 27 years ago so I must be wrong on which edition it is. I was going from memory. I'll have to try and dig it out and dust it off. I'm still pretty sure it's going to be well out of date.

 

[CinnamonDonkey]

   7 minutes ago,  Slowhand said: 

11th edition of the regs covers the years 1939 to 1948.

That makes it 69 years out of date.

Slightly more useful in this scenario than my 10th edition.

LOL. I'm not that old, yet - I'm 45, I done my training about 27 years ago so I must be wrong on which edition it is. I was going from memory. I'll have to try and dig it out and dust it off. I'm still pretty sure it's going to be well out of date.

 

[Andy™]

dont worry, Deke still has the 1st edition (well, he did co-write it)

 

[Lurch]

I've uploaded a photo - maybe I'm being unreasonable or just missing the point.

I wouldn't have even mentioned that on the report. I'm pretty sure it is outside the zones from what you said earlier, and even if it wasn't I wouldn't really be concerned unless it was directly over the bath/shower.

 

[CinnamonDonkey]

I want to be as fair as I can to the electrician so I have found another picture to add some context. The position of the light fitting is in the centre of the ceiling in line with the sink pedestal. So it's not immediately above the bath/shower area.     

 

 

[Andy™]

still need to know the height

 

[Adrian]

I wouldn't mention it on a eicr it was not that long ago we used to fit batten holders in bathrooms 

 

[Andy™]

I wouldn't mention it on a eicr it was not that long ago we used to fit batten holders in bathrooms 

if it should be IPx4 and it isnt then it should be noted as it doesnt comply. if its out the zones and doesnt need to be IPx4 then nothing to note. previously fitting battens has nothing to do with it

 

[Lurch]

it was not that long ago we used to fit batten holders in bathrooms

We still do, in the correct zones.

 

[binky]

@binky : That's exactly my point. I would expect an experienced electrician to apply some common sense and even if there is no visible label they should be able to use past experience to make a sensible and safe judgement call. 

I've uploaded a photo - maybe I'm being unreasonable or just missing the point.

The white main dome is glass and it fits flush to the backing plate also made of glass. The light assembly fits flush with the ceiling. The only metal is inside the unit and can only be accessed by removing the three thumb screws on the bottom.

It was purchased as a bathroom light and I don't think I am being unreasonable in suggesting it's going to be splash proof and would meet the fairly loose requirements of IPx4.

  

View attachment 7944

Looks absolutely fine to me - IP rating is probably on back of base plate, so unless you take it down, you can't find it.

 

[datadiffusion]

If it was me, I wouldn't be raising any concens given the appearance of the fitting, and given location, I have to say.

 

[CinnamonDonkey]

Ok, managed to get the ceiling height, it is 2.41m (floor-to-ceiling).

 

[Lurch]

Ok, managed to get the ceiling height, it is 2.41m (floor-to-ceiling).

I was pretty much willing to put money on that (was 100% certain after you posted pics). No issue then, guy is being an arse.

 

[Andy™]

Ok, managed to get the ceiling height, it is 2.41m (floor-to-ceiling).

the light must also be fully above 2.25 too. its unlikely that it is lower than 2.25 given the ceiling height, so as lurch says, he's being a **** and probably trying to get more work for quoting for stuff that doesnt need to be done. either that or he doesnt know the regs well enough to be doing EICR's

 

[CinnamonDonkey]

Cheers guys! You have all been incredibly helpful. 

I've got to get back to this guy now and some how deal with this - thank you. 

 

[Badger]

If I'd have seen that in the bathroom I would have said it was suitable for environment coming sense and knowing the job goes a long way here 

 

[phil d]

If I'd have seen that in the bathroom I would have said it was suitable for environment coming sense and knowing the job goes a long way here 

You're showing your age now, lol, wasn't there something in the latest regs that said common sense should not be applied if you are under a certain age? :|

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Even if the light fitting was unsuitable for the environment.....

It is unlikely to be an immediate danger or potentially dangerous...  so no C1 or C2..

It certainly wouldn't be economically viable to do further investigations, (to try and figure out its IP rating), for the sake of one, (probably cheap), light fitting.

Probably not even worth a C3 or any comment at all....

Just give the customer a note with the EICR saying it would probably be beneficial to get a new light fitting at their earliest convenience..

Guinness

 

[phil d]

Even if the light fitting was unsuitable for the environment.....

It is unlikely to be an immediate danger or potentially dangerous...  so no C1 or C2..

It certainly wouldn't be economically viable to do further investigations, (to try and figure out its IP rating), for the sake of one, (probably cheap), light fitting.

Probably not even worth a C3 or any comment at all....

Just give the customer a note with the EICR saying it would probably be beneficial to get a new light fitting at their earliest convenience..

Guinness

Exactly, or for the sake of a couple of screws whip it down and check if it states the IP rating on the back, the trouble is these days too many people are out to make as much money as they can by charging for "extra's" that we considered part of the job.  I remember one firm who did some work for a guy and it involved lifting a few paving slabs as a hole had to be dug, they did the job and left the slabs leaning against the wall, when he asked about them being re laid he was told that would be an extra! Can you imagine taking up floorboards to rewire a house and then telling the customer, " we've done the rewire, but if you want those floorboards back down it's an extra 100 quid".

There's loads of times I've been on jobs and spotted something silly, a socket missing a cover screw or maybe a loose fitting, "done that job mate and tightened that loose fitting as well, no extra charge " it goes a long way with the customer, a small investment here can pay dividends in the long run, I'm not suggesting spending hours doing something you weren't asked to do, but something that only takes you 10 minutes can make a big impression.

 

[CinnamonDonkey]

@phil d : Totally true and a great attitude, if only their were more tradesmen like you in the world. I think I should 'SCOOB' you, only, I'm not sure what 'SCOOB' actually means. According to urban dictionary it's: 

     "Scoob; when you're smoking marijuana out of a pipe or piece and you suck in too hard and you get ash (or 'scoobs') in your mouth." 

Not quite the meaning I had in mind, +1, thank you, vote up... etc  


The problem I have now with this electrician is that I can't trust him. I already caught him out on another point: 

    "C2 - 10. Bedroom light shade missing."

After I questioned it he backed down and agreed to re-code to C3. 


From his responses in our correspondence he talks a lot about not having enough time as a reason for F/I's. For example: 

    "The testing process doesn’t afford enough time to investigate these items fully and therefore F/I is required, usually on a time/material basis. ... The testing process simply doesn’t afford the time for us to call you about each and every item if you are not present.  Even when customers are present there simply  isn’t enough time to discuss each and every item" 

This was in response to an F/I item "Unknown spur destination in kitchen" after I asked him why he did not call me, being 200 miles from the property, I made a specific point of letting him know I was contactable.

Fair enough, he can't call about every issue, but come on. Really. Besides - it doesn't take a genius to work it out the spur is connected to the switch above the kitchen top (anyway, I'll drop this one here because it's another point of contention, possibly another thread - GRRR! ). 

The point I am making is not about the spurs more about his attitude. Surely when you quote for a job you allow sufficient time to do the job properly - it's not like this guy was cheap, he was well above the price quoted by other electricians - I went with him because I thought he might go the extra mile and afford the 2 minutes it would have took to figure out where the spur was connected. 


Whilst I am sure that some points, maybe most, on the EICR are perfectly valid, I can't trust this guy and quite honestly I'd rather not be having to deal with him. I certainly won't be dealing with him again once this has all reached it's conclusion.