EV charger installers
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I guess they must be as they must meet the minimum requirement to in the amendment 1,722.411.4.1
BS 7671 is not a product standard therefore it cannot be used to assess the safety of a product.
An o-pen device has no recognised product standard.
The assessment of diversity is not compulsory, nor is it down to the installer it is the responsibility of the designer for the installation.
The requirements of competence for that role would necessitate the ability to assess and decide upon the diversity.
This is why indemnity insurance is recommended for a designer.
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That's hilarious if that's what you really think.
A fixed load of 7KW is with absolutely no doubt a key issue when designing a circuit or more importantly a sub main
Its a bit like people now coding RCD's on dual RCD boards as C2's because the sum of the circuits being protected is greater than the RCD rating ...
I just found some more info, it's not mine I am only sharing what I have. #EVSE connection centre uses a ct to monitor the earth fault current as well as measuring voltage on the live conductor to make the equipment safe in the event of a failure/loss of pen conductor in the distribution network. Key features pen loss protection, for a lot of installers, will negate the need for an earth spike in the ground at a charging point#
Also example#for an instalation that reqiired protection for 6mA dc earth leakage, would typically require a type B rcd +mcb+earth spike would now with an ev centre only require 6mA sensor and type A RCBO which would now meet the same standard. #
This just follows the same trend that the industry has been going through on it's way down to the bottom and demonstrates how split the industry has become as it is divided up, how far can you split something before it become worthless and irrelevant
The comment overall sounds like a pitch for another book of guidance, a course and an exam and really demonstrates the "out of touch committee" thinking that is slowly destroying this industry
Then moving on will we as an installer able to do an installation on the fly as it will need to be "designed" by an appropriate person
I'll state again, there is no proof that open PEN detection units are safe, no matter what the sales literature says.
The desk audit I have done on compliance of one model illustrated that it does not comply with the legal requirements to be placed on the market.
There is no recognised product standard for these devices, thus manufacturer claims are all that we have.
The unit I looked at contained electronics and software but made no statements at to compliance or reliability of these parts.
The desk audit I have done on compliance of one model illustrated that it does not comply with the legal requirements to be placed on the market.
There is no recognised product standard for these devices, thus manufacturer claims are all that we have.
The unit I looked at contained electronics and software but made no statements at to compliance or reliability of these parts.
I have no books to sell.
I do not sit on JPEL/64.
I do not work for an electrical contractor registration body.
I do not work for a course developer/accreditation body.
I am merely pointing out that if there is no designer, and the installer does this their own way, then they become the designer in law.
Remember that whilst BS 7671 is not law, EAWR is, and if you get it wrong, it is EAWR and HASAWA you will be looking at being prosecuted under.
It is down to you to be competent in making the engineering judgements for a suitable and sufficient design.
I do not want the industry split any more, I want people to level up and upskill to learn these things.
Part of upskilling is knowing your legal liabilities.
Remember, I have done quite a bit of voluntary work putting information out for people with no expectation of recompense.
Whether you like how that information is put forward or not, is your choice but we have put it out there.
More so than many schemes and before the schemes and others, it is almost like we were copied...
From what I understand, installers have been put in positions like example Renault ev charger installs would not actually work when connected as a TT arrangement so they have installed as TNCS rightly or wrongly and issued certificates. Its their judgment, but having this new technoligy like ev control centres would surely be safer for that type of install. I fully understand that it's down to the installer in what his judgement is in these cases.
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I think EV charger installations ( or the majority of ) will go the same way as
double glazing
cavity wall,insulation/insulation removal
voltage optimisation
"have you had an EV charging point installed that wasn't your fault? Do you think it was installed incorrectly? Contact Wimpy Brasso &Fart your friendly solicitors who will act as if offended on your behalf ( but not actually give a flying
as long as we dry ream you for every last penny in fees) to claim what is rightfully yours"
double glazing
cavity wall,insulation/insulation removal
voltage optimisation
"have you had an EV charging point installed that wasn't your fault? Do you think it was installed incorrectly? Contact Wimpy Brasso &Fart your friendly solicitors who will act as if offended on your behalf ( but not actually give a flying
as long as we dry ream you for every last penny in fees) to claim what is rightfully yours"
I don't know, its what I researched. But good point. I cannot remember where I found it on line but one guy rang renault and they agreed it would not opperate on TT. Electricians have fitted them, and reading everyone's posts from a large variety of skilled and exsperiance people on this post like your self it appears this going on is happening. I think the ammendment was rushed through because of the goverment encouraging evs so I guess many good electricians ev installers were refusing to fit chargers in some circumstances and to help them decided that new tech was the awnser. To get round problems associated with regs. In other words to make installs happen. This topic for me has been very intresting and to have everyone's imput has been fantastic. Respect you all.
boltonsparky
Senior Member
I've heard about Renaults problems with the earth and the cars refusing to charge, unless they have a good earth. Surely in this case a charge point with an O-PEN device is the solution.
One mans solution was to regularly pour a bucket of water over his earth rod to get the car charging.
It's not always possible to install an earth rod so that leaves us with the option of O-PEN technology as protection. Maybe O-PEN technology isn't up to scratch and lacking a standard but I don't believe that's the fault of the installer, we're told to follow manufacturers instructions and BS7671 both of which mention it as an option. The safety/standards of O-PEN from a legal POV needs looking at at manufacturer level instead of yet again being put on those just trying to earn a crust and wade their way through the ever increasing and thickening mud of standards and regulations.
Either way it has to be a lot safer than the ever increasing number of people charging via granny chargers from any old 13a socket and extension.
One mans solution was to regularly pour a bucket of water over his earth rod to get the car charging.
It's not always possible to install an earth rod so that leaves us with the option of O-PEN technology as protection. Maybe O-PEN technology isn't up to scratch and lacking a standard but I don't believe that's the fault of the installer, we're told to follow manufacturers instructions and BS7671 both of which mention it as an option. The safety/standards of O-PEN from a legal POV needs looking at at manufacturer level instead of yet again being put on those just trying to earn a crust and wade their way through the ever increasing and thickening mud of standards and regulations.
Either way it has to be a lot safer than the ever increasing number of people charging via granny chargers from any old 13a socket and extension.
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that link says you can use a standard 13A socket, yet BS7671 says you have special sockets .
you couldn’t make this carp up if you tried
thats largely irrelevant given that granny chargers are plugged into standard sockets
how many EV drivers know what BS1363 is - probably less than 1% and all people want is a charge
Not really irrelevant, the statement that you made was incorrect.
So, the vehicle manufacturers and dealerships need to stop giving out the dangerous information, that way, the public will learn.
It's not the electrcial industry that is giving them the rubbish advice it’s the vehicle companies that are ripping them off & lying to them.
tbh if its supplied with a 13a plug then it should be capable of being plugged into any 13a socket. if it needs a special socket then it should be different to the point of they cant be plugged into the wrong one
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