Experience or Qualifications?
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If 'A' wasnt time served then experienced in what?
netblindpaul
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Doubtful that under current legislation you could legally employ person A and allow him to work for you as a competent person.
Due to the accetped definition of competence.
Paul
Due to the accetped definition of competence.
Paul
PC Electrics
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I wouldn't even interview A. Being a spark for 15 years and having NO qualifications is just lazy and lacking get-up-and-go. It also suggests an inability or unwillingness to learn & adapt and to keep up with changing regs & practice. Bet he's the sort who clocks in & out bang on time every day too.
Would I employ B? Depends on the interview.
Would I employ B? Depends on the interview.
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With no formal training 'spark' A could be doing it badly wrong all this time.
There has to be more to this - do share
There has to be more to this - do share
just feeling unloved, but since you asked here's the rant... I have put myself through college over the last four years, my firm hasn't paid for anything. I'm just about to finish the NVQ 3, already have2330, 2391, am2 etc but the company seems to see no value in any of this.With no formal training 'spark' A could be doing it badly wrong all this time.There has to be more to this - do share
No van, no payrise since i started without any experience or qualifications. There's a fella on the firm who's been working for years, good domestic spark and a nice guy but no certificates and no desire to get any and he gets everything he wants. Nice company van Jib rates etc...
Desperately trying to find another job but so is everyone else round here so i was just wondering what the wider world thought. This firm seems quite insular and not particularly foreward looking... Just bumbling along...
I would keep your head down, you still have some money coming in. Get your NVQ 3 sorted and start to look around. You will find somebody who will take you on and appreciate you. Or start up on your own, if you have come this far on your own without your company's input then you could easily make a go of it!!
I have to disagree that being a spark for 15 years with no qualifications shows laziness and no get up and go....supposing the said spark has been working for a firm for all those years who are happy to use him as he is ,i.e. he can do the job so lets get him out there making us money and never mind sending him to college.!!...just like electrics,sometimes all is not as it seems and requires further investigation,and there would be no further investigation with no interview!!
My own guess would be that candidate A may well be the best fault finder you have ever met, while candidate B can wire everything from scratch very neat and tidy and quote 3 million regs with their reg numbers....but ask him to find a fault on a ring circuit...and I reckon you may well see the advantage of good experienced tradesmen.
Assuming candidate A has provable work history he would be the spark I would employ. 3 years experience is only just getting your tools together to be fair.
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I think that sums it up nicely!
I exactly what I would do in that situation. Alternatively once qualified then ask for pay rise etc and see what happens, you have little to lose!
ianmacd
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If it had been no experience and quals compared to years experience then I would have swung to the experience only but some experience is good.
I have seen too many unqualified sparks that have boardered on dangeros in the same way a green boot camper would be. As mentioned above the right kind of experience makes the difference.
I have seen too many unqualified sparks that have boardered on dangeros in the same way a green boot camper would be. As mentioned above the right kind of experience makes the difference.
I know what you are saying and I agree with a lot of it, however, this bloke is expecting somebody new to employ him. I would expect a minimum of the 17th edition 2382 exam. Not from the point of view of quoting regs, but to demonstrate to his/her new employer he/she has a basic understanding of the current wiring regulations and will work to them.
I'm sorry but I don't quite agree with all those saying stay away from A. I've been sparkying now for nearly 5 years and neither of my 2 employers have given me the chance to go through college and although last year I managed to do my 2330 lv2 on evenings, this years wasn't such a success. I started lv 3 and was doing well up to Xmas when we got a contract that was over an hour away from home. Basically couldn't get to college for over 10 weeks and now been booted out. Is that my fault and does it mean I'm lazy and have no interest in my career.
Oh yeah and just to boot, I know more than the fully qualled sparks at our place who seemed to have 'lost it all' shall we say.
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This questions shows some catch 22 situations relating to:-
A) Employee - VS - Employer
B) happily employed - VS - Looking for new employment
Consider the Management perspective of scenario A)
As long as the employed person who is a good worker and does the job for the company has the basic essential training to cover their backs for H&S obligations, there is no need to go spending more company money on additional training that will not benefit the company..
If it is financially beneficial to the company to increase the training and quantifications of their employees, (say if needed to meet obligations for a lucrative contract) then they may insist that the employee has additional qualifications or promotion opportunities may be missed..
If advantageous to the company the employer may cover the training costs. Or they may put it out as a preferred requirement for employees who want to get promotion onto a higher grade and save the company spending the training money!
Consider the Employee perspective of scenario B)
If the employee is happy in a secure job and has the minimum required qualifications... what is the motivation to give up more time or money get any more qualifications that will bring no financial reward?
If the employee is getting itchy feet and looking to move employers, it will be to their advantage to gain as many qualifications as possible to make themselves more salable in the job market. Because qualification always add more value over another candidate who has the same level of experience but limited qualifications.
When considering self employed persons the individual qualifications have to be evaluated for their specific merits and influence over gaining contracts.
Many long time experienced persons can be stick-in-the-mud, set in their ways.. because they know it all from all the years on the tools!
but also many highly qualified persons can also be stick-in-the-mud, set in their ways.. because they know it all & got distinctions to prove it!
A) Employee - VS - Employer
B) happily employed - VS - Looking for new employment
Consider the Management perspective of scenario A)
As long as the employed person who is a good worker and does the job for the company has the basic essential training to cover their backs for H&S obligations, there is no need to go spending more company money on additional training that will not benefit the company..
If it is financially beneficial to the company to increase the training and quantifications of their employees, (say if needed to meet obligations for a lucrative contract) then they may insist that the employee has additional qualifications or promotion opportunities may be missed..
If advantageous to the company the employer may cover the training costs. Or they may put it out as a preferred requirement for employees who want to get promotion onto a higher grade and save the company spending the training money!
Consider the Employee perspective of scenario B)
If the employee is happy in a secure job and has the minimum required qualifications... what is the motivation to give up more time or money get any more qualifications that will bring no financial reward?
If the employee is getting itchy feet and looking to move employers, it will be to their advantage to gain as many qualifications as possible to make themselves more salable in the job market. Because qualification always add more value over another candidate who has the same level of experience but limited qualifications.
When considering self employed persons the individual qualifications have to be evaluated for their specific merits and influence over gaining contracts.
Many long time experienced persons can be stick-in-the-mud, set in their ways.. because they know it all from all the years on the tools!
but also many highly qualified persons can also be stick-in-the-mud, set in their ways.. because they know it all & got distinctions to prove it!
I would say it's pretty unreasonable of your employer not to let get away at a reasonable time 2 days a week to complete your college. In my experience as long as you're there enough to keep the college happy you wont have any trouble passing the asessments...
as it was for me last year,
really couldnt believe there was the only exam I had ever taken in my life and I was allowed the F***in book with me!!!!! how easy is that, is it any surprise we have people that are thick as planks claiming to be sparks?
and that would be what?
as according to EAWR (which is statutory) Im unsure as to what you mean.
+1
can you define this,
AFAIK, there is no such thing, unless you want to be approved by someone/body,
EAWR does not state any qualifications.
would probably be regarded by his employer (nob or not) as his finishing time,
is it in his employers interest to let him finish early so he can advance himself and ask for more money?
[just playing devils advocate here folks]
the kind of statement I didnt expect to hear on this forum to be honest.
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