Failed D.E.I.P.I.R. (for a single dwelling)

[Doc Hudson]

Doc,

thanks for your comment. I think you are spot on. This should be brought to the attention of the NICEIC.

Hello Mr Slim, you will probably need to contact your electrician first to ask him to complete the job by supplying correct certificates. But even so its still worth a call. This Part-P building regs fact sheet may hep you: http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File1247.pdf. and this is a link to a complaints form: NICEIC | Householder | Complaints Do let us know how you get on. I don't think the NICEIC have any involvement with complaints about the charges for work. But they should take action if correct procedures and compliance has not been correctly followed.

Doc H.

 

[fletchflash]

Mr Slim,

I would decline to pay this bill for the work, until you can sort out some sort of arrangement. There is no way you have actually got what has been agreed to do. That is not a PIR its a joke, you wouldnt pay for a pint of p*** when you'd ordered a pint?

I would also suggest getting someone else in to do another PIR, not because he has clearly failed to do the original correctly, but i would be very concerned about any work this person has done within your home and whether or not it is safe or not, especially with a new fuseboard and tinkering round with your main supply.

Many members seem shocked by the state of this cert and simply cannot believe he/she is a member of any Part P scheme. Unfortunately I am convinced he will be a fully fledged member of the DI scheme. Its a joke, i seem to see so many PIR's like this, or jobs where there is a complete lack of any certification. One of the worst ones was last year, it was as messy as this one and not filled in correctly. Each page was from a different pad. By that i mean page 1 was a scheme's pad, page 2 from a kewtech pad and 1 page was actually plain paper with some notes scrawled on it.

Last week had a job to put in an extra socket where a large ltd company had part rewired a house 2 years ago after a 'failed' PIR to the same standard as this. When i pulled up a loose floor board there was a nail straight through ring main cable, hadnt tripped MCB but affected continuity of cpc. This had not been picked up when testing as new works had clearly not been tested or certified. Customer got the company back after i said i couldnt do the work, who then messed him round further, but eventually fixed the fault (with a

 

[monkey5]

any joy mr slim?

i think theres a few on here who are very interested about this.

wayne

 

[Mr. SLim]

Hello Mr Slim, you will probably need to contact your electrician first to ask him to complete the job by supplying correct certificates. But even so its still worth a call. This Part-P building regs fact sheet may hep you: http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File1247.pdf. and this is a link to a complaints form: NICEIC | Householder | Complaints Do let us know how you get on. I don't think the NICEIC have any involvement with complaints about the charges for work. But they should take action if correct procedures and compliance has not been correctly followed.

Doc H.

Thank you for the links.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was made at 11:19 ----------

I have been away and missed most of this thread.The PIR is not filled in correctly for a start, and you would never ever IR test any unknown circuit, for fear of damaging any sensitive equipment being used. I would be interested in how he managed to do the "whole" installation, carpets up, floorboards up because he has signed the PIR that is what he has done, and confirmed this by saying that all wiring is in prescribed zones. If this is a registered person you do have a route to make sure all things are corrected. I think looking at the PIR it could be a stolen book being used by a clue less DIY electrician, or a builder who has been given some spare books. Check his registration number with the NICEIC to see if it matches his details, I would be very surprised if it does. Any electrical works carried out by this person should be checked and you should have received an Electrical Installation Certificate for the CU change.

Hello Manator,

the registration name and number 'match' those held with NICEIC.

This Company is a NICEIC Registered Domestic Installer.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was made at 11:23 ----------

any joy mr slim?i think theres a few on here who are very interested about this.

wayne

Hello Wayne,

I have been communicating with the letting agency and in particular the person who deals with electrical certificates.

I am trying to give this person the opportunity to investigate my complaint and agree that things are not satisfactory.

An email that I received on Friday would suggest that this person is not going to take this any further.

I was hoping that like everyone here in this thread (apart from me) she too would want to get to the bottom of this, but no. I wonder why not?.

I have an appointment to inspect the property so I can post a photo of the work - I think Chris may have mentioned an interest in this.

Before I take the matter to NICEIC I will give the 'management' of the letting agency the opportunity to do so as I think that they should be interested enough to do so as they contracted this company (although I think it is a one man show).

I'll be in touch and thanks for you comments and views. Apologies for not getting back sooner.

 

[ADS]

Hi,

NICEIC Domestic Installers donot normally have NICEIC backing to perform PIRs - unless they've paid the extra cash - just another angle........might explain why it's so poor....probably hasn't even got the 2391.

 

[Theorysparky]

you dont need 2391 to do PIRs

my personal view........

for domestic properties2391 is a waste of time..........might start a thread on it........

 

[M107]

Hi,NICEIC Domestic Installers donot normally have NICEIC backing to perform PIRs

Oh yes they do as I've already said, if the fella has been on the 4 day virtual domestic periodic test & inspection course & passed he is able to purchase the Dpir certs/reports & can happily bimble away for a year untill he is then required to undertake an assessment & pay the fee.

 

[NozSpark]

TBH if the contractor is able to do DPIRs under the NICEIC scheme then I would think that a complaint to the NICEIC would be thet first port of call,,, there are so many errors an holes in that report that Slim could possibly and quite rightly sue for the incorrect advise given and the subsequent works carried out..

My assessor told me of someone who had made errors on a PIR and also missed some spurs off spurs, the new owner then carried out some renovation work and then discovered this,,, the contractor was then forced to correct the faulty wiring at his own expense

 

[Manator]

The ramifications of doing any PIR can be huge, I see some where there are no details filled in for limitations, this is one area where I spend some time and make sure its filled in right, it can save your bacon.

The report should be as detailed as possible, and include all tests carried out and any tests not carried out. The PIR shown in this thread has left this electrician open to some very serious problems and all of his own making. If he has not got the relevant insurance it will also cost him some serious money and time. I do PIR's where I am excluded from doing any remedials, NICEIC AC's then do the work, I have never had any complaint so far, because the report is as detailed as possible and always contains pages of instructions where you will find any suspect faults and the like.

Thats the best part of continuation sheets, it lets you give more information than the standard forms allow. It also helps to clarify why you have given a code 2 for instance when on first look it should be a code 4, subject to your risk assessment.

 

[fletchflash]

+1

Thats definately something Im learning to do more and more. Details on Periodics, not only to cover yourself, but can make things more clear for cust. PIR's can really look like jargon to the untrained. Most the time I send out a cover letter too. Helps people understand and sets you up to be asked for remidial quotation

 

[Mr. SLim]

Mr Slim, I would decline to pay this bill for the work, until you can sort out some sort of arrangement. There is no way you have actually got what has been agreed to do. That is not a PIR its a joke, you wouldnt pay for a pint of p*** when you'd ordered a pint?

I would also suggest getting someone else in to do another PIR, not because he has clearly failed to do the original correctly, but i would be very concerned about any work this person has done within your home and whether or not it is safe or not, especially with a new fuseboard and tinkering round with your main supply.

Many members seem shocked by the state of this cert and simply cannot believe he/she is a member of any Part P scheme. Unfortunately I am convinced he will be a fully fledged member of the DI scheme. Its a joke, i seem to see so many PIR's like this, or jobs where there is a complete lack of any certification. One of the worst ones was last year, it was as messy as this one and not filled in correctly. Each page was from a different pad. By that i mean page 1 was a scheme's pad, page 2 from a kewtech pad and 1 page was actually plain paper with some notes scrawled on it.

Last week had a job to put in an extra socket where a large ltd company had part rewired a house 2 years ago after a 'failed' PIR to the same standard as this. When i pulled up a loose floor board there was a nail straight through ring main cable, hadnt tripped MCB but affected continuity of cpc. This had not been picked up when testing as new works had clearly not been tested or certified. Customer got the company back after i said i couldnt do the work, who then messed him round further, but eventually fixed the fault (with a

 

[Mr. SLim]

Where to start,,,,First of all it looks like the guy has only just learnt to write... FFS that's untidy!

Most of the codes on that are over done

Code 1 should only be used for things that a a real immediate danger... I.e. Exposed live parts

No RCD protection on an older CU should only be a code 4

IMO this was done by someone who doesn't really understand PIRs or by someone who is trying to generate work for themselves... Or maybe both

Do you remember the colour of you old CU?

Hello NozSpark - the colour of the old CU was grey...

 

[ianmacd]

Hmm. Reconnected a circuit without adiquate testing. Sound like a good plan to anyone else? Where is the EIC and was this notified to LABC?

 

[NozSpark]

Hello NozSpark - the colour of the old CU was grey...

So I would have to guess that it was an old MEM 3036 board..

That certificate is for the inspection and testing of an installation only,,,, not the replacement of a Consumer Unit or any electrical alterations or additions.

You should have received an "Electrical Installation Certificate"

If I were you I'd get onto the NICEIC and make a complaint, you are meant to give the contractor a chance to rectify anything first though. Make any complaint in writing to the contractor and maybe a copy to the NICEIC

 

[fletchflash]

i find it slighlty amusing that on the second PIR (which should be a DIC) for any details regarding a previous inspection, this person has seemed to forget about the inspection he must have done a week/month prior and just put 'no' in all the boxes

 

[Manator]

This whole episode is totally wrong, the first point of call would be a written complaint to the contractor who carried out the works. The NICEIC will listen to your complaint but would be powerless to do anything other than instruct the electri (scrub that I am not calling this guy one of those) contractor to remedy the obvious faults. For one, based on the initial PIR it would be hard to find anything to put right if the recorded readings are themselves wrong. Secondly you do not issue another PIR when you have carried out a CU change, it is notifiable and would have to be covered by an EIC. I am still trying to figure out how the R1+R2 readings are higher than even the R2 reading never mind the addition of R1.

If I was given this report I would easily say thet the person who filled it in does not know anything about electrical installations.

Whilst you can advise a client to upgrade the CU to provide additional RCD protection, it is not a requirement. I would say that you also have a valid claim against this contractor for the advise and works done. Make sure you keep a copy of the original PIR and the latest one, evidence contained in them will be valuable when you make your claim. Ask him for a full refund for the remedial works, and a proper EIC for the CU. Tell him you will forward copies of the certificates he gave you to the NICEIC, if he fails to comply.

This man need training to do the job proper and people like him give all electricians a bad name.

The details contained in this post are my own personal views and does not reflect any view from any administrator or other moderators or any forum member. My opinion is based on the evidence supplied and my experience in the electrical industry.

 

[NozSpark]

IIRC your initial recommendation to use this particular contractor was through a letting agency,, I would also make sure that you send them a copy of your complaint / issues.

 

[steptoe]

even that 2nd PIR is rubbish,

the main switch is NOT 60439-7

U is NOT 230v , that would be Uo

and is a BS 1361 breaking capacity really 16kA ?

I havent really bothered to look any further, these things are so basic that getting them wrong is indefensible, the BS number of the main switch is on it for crying out loud, this monkey has wrote down the number on the front of the CU . IDIOT.

did his horse dump all over your driveway?

 

[ian932]

I'd love to see a picture of the inside of the cu. But only if it could be done safely and Slim I don't recommend you take the cover off even with the power off as there is no telling whether the main tails would pop out going by the state of this guy's performance so far.

I may have missed it somewhere in the thread as I was skimming to catch up on this one, but Slim are you the Landlord or the tenant? if the latter how come you ended up footing the bill?

 

[M107]

:red card Not alot else can be said can it................... :C