I dont have any 2 tread steps, I have a handrail for my toolbox. 
fan perm live
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This forum regularly bemoans 5WW who know nothing and are incompetent....
Is it any ruddy wonder when supposed "competent time served sparks" spout loads of drivel about..
oh its only recommendation...
or
It only applies to other countries cuz they don't have 6A circuits...
or
most don't even ask for a swich...
or ..
oh its just like a light fitting...
headbangheadbang
1/ Most light fittings I install.. DON'T have any moving parts...
jammed up motor trying to turn under load...
2/ Most light fittings I install don't have high humidity and warm steamy air passing close to their workings..
or the possibility of moisture coming back down a poorly installed ducting to put water into the fan assembly....
3/
the bit that says (UK only) AFAIK.. means that applies to UK.. not foreign where they don't use many 6A lights!!??
4/
Bold back MUST actually means a guidance recommendation..
NOT a specific instruction.....
Proper instructions are in flashing red!!!
5/ Both of those are proper instructions ..
and they both also ask for a switch...
So conclusion...
To all you younger members learning our trade....
Read the guidance of the forum....
Read the manufactures instruction...
Read BS7671...
then make you own descisssion....
Many say you don't have too...
I do cuz it costs sod all to follow the instuctions....
But then I am probably reading the words wrong!
:C
Is it any ruddy wonder when supposed "competent time served sparks" spout loads of drivel about..
oh its only recommendation...
or
It only applies to other countries cuz they don't have 6A circuits...
or
most don't even ask for a swich...
or ..
oh its just like a light fitting...
headbangheadbang
1/ Most light fittings I install.. DON'T have any moving parts...
jammed up motor trying to turn under load...
2/ Most light fittings I install don't have high humidity and warm steamy air passing close to their workings..
or the possibility of moisture coming back down a poorly installed ducting to put water into the fan assembly....
3/
the bit that says (UK only) AFAIK.. means that applies to UK.. not foreign where they don't use many 6A lights!!??
4/
Bold back MUST actually means a guidance recommendation..
NOT a specific instruction.....
Proper instructions are in flashing red!!!
5/ Both of those are proper instructions ..
and they both also ask for a switch...
So conclusion...
To all you younger members learning our trade....
Read the guidance of the forum....
Read the manufactures instruction...
Read BS7671...
then make you own descisssion....
Many say you don't have too...
I do cuz it costs sod all to follow the instuctions....
But then I am probably reading the words wrong!
:C
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or following the words of BS7671 to the point where you are obviously breaking the law,
as there are places/points in 7671 where if you done exactly as stated then you would indeed break statutory law.
Im not going digging them out now, but for all you that think BS7671 is the be all and end all please be careful as it will have you breaking the law.
as there are places/points in 7671 where if you done exactly as stated then you would indeed break statutory law.
Im not going digging them out now, but for all you that think BS7671 is the be all and end all please be careful as it will have you breaking the law.
No your not reading it incorrectly your just not using common sense FFS.
If you have water coming back down your duct you should not even be installing the fan in the first place IMHO, because you clearly have not done that bit right to start with, where's your drain off !!!
You say it cost's sod all, well
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No your not reading it incorrectly your just not using common sense FFS.If you have water coming back down your duct you should not even be installing the fan in the first place IMHO, because you clearly have not done that bit right to start with, where's your drain off !!!
You say it cost's sod all, well
Last week I had my yearly assessment. For this I moved a cu from the cellar into the hallway ( reason access to the old one was poor and the owners are in the 70s so wanted it moving ). Anyway I also did other work, they wanted new fan fitting, bathroom light, isolator and so on. My assessor came went through the usual stuff. Guess what he picked me up on. The isolator I fitted could not be locked off, and no mention of an fcu . I think it's up to the competent individual to decide whether it needs one or not ffs. And how can they justify another 6 or so quid for the isolator padlock and piece of plastic that will be lost by the owners with in days, the world has gone mad.
ffs. And how can they justify another 6 or so quid for the isolator padlock and piece of plastic that will be lost by the owners with in days, the world has gone mad.
KME - said -Question: If you approach a "pelican" type crossing; and the lights are red, but you can`t see anyone on the crossing.........do you decide that the red light doesn`t apply to you, because, in your opinion it isn`t necessary? I expect the answer is "yes".
So Special Location that is
what the reference was to, it works both ways.
We don't have a lot of wooden houses down here, mainly Cotswold stone, and Flint.
When can you spare 5 minutes to do mine, I will pay you for an hour each one and we do around 200 a year.
Still say 6A B Type will go before 3A BS1362.
Either way you do it your way and I will do it my way period........Just sayin.......
So Special Location that is
what the reference was to, it works both ways.
We don't have a lot of wooden houses down here, mainly Cotswold stone, and Flint.
When can you spare 5 minutes to do mine, I will pay you for an hour each one and we do around 200 a year.
Still say 6A B Type will go before 3A BS1362.
Either way you do it your way and I will do it my way period........Just sayin.......
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Just spoke with vent Axia, and Manrose, cannot be bothered phoning the others .... Vent axia told me, no you don't need to be fitting FCU as well... They did say that some old stock may have instructions in them telling you so but ignore it and you'll find any new(er) stock wont tell you to fit one.....
Manrose say it is only a recommendation as not everyone would wire them from a lighting circuit......
So there we have.... Anyone care to ring the rest of them and ask their views....
So, I personally aren't going to start adding more switches, fcu's and fan isolators than i need to to an already busy piece of wall on the landing that the customers already hate.....
And special, it's not just a fiver mate however much you try to dress it up!!!!
Each to their own......
Manrose say it is only a recommendation as not everyone would wire them from a lighting circuit......
So there we have.... Anyone care to ring the rest of them and ask their views....
So, I personally aren't going to start adding more switches, fcu's and fan isolators than i need to to an already busy piece of wall on the landing that the customers already hate.....
And special, it's not just a fiver mate however much you try to dress it up!!!!
Each to their own......
I use Greenwood Airvac because we have a really good discount with us fitting so many, and they state "when supplied from a 5A lighting circuit no local fuse is required"
I must say that just because I don't need to fit one, I feel offended that Special Location keeps referencing me as incompetent in his posts.
I've had 27 annual assessments and not once have I been asked to rework anything, the 8 men I employ look to me for guidance a lot of the time and I would like to feel I'm making a contribution and a contribution based on experience, if I make a mistake I will put my hand up and take advice because we are still learning every day of the week, even today I was called to site because NPower would not connect a builders supply because the earth rod was not 9M from the meter, it was 1.5M, we had to move it 7.5M, I asked why, meter man did not know, phoned his boss, he did not know, he just said it's NPower policy.
Anyway I think it's done now, Shed69 and I have shown you it's not required in most cases, get over it and stop being such a pompous person.
......Just sayin.........
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Well...
there was a time when this forum encouraged a bit of healthy debate about a topic...
But now it seems that if someone trys to posts a contrary opinion..
(even with factual references quoted)..
then they are ...
What was it now?
:|
there was a time when this forum encouraged a bit of healthy debate about a topic...
But now it seems that if someone trys to posts a contrary opinion..
(even with factual references quoted)..
then they are ...
What was it now?
Oh yes.. a pompous person...
:|
I feel offended that Special Location keeps referencing me as incompetent in his posts
as you say yourself,Well...there was a time when this forum encouraged a bit of healthy debate about a topic...
But now it seems that if someone trys to posts a contrary opinion..
(even with factual references quoted)..
then they are ...
What was it now?
Oh yes.. a pompous person...
:|
Errm?? I do not believe I have called you incompetent?? :C
even though you imply I have no common sense..!!
don't worry I won't be offended..
Right so lets get back to the point in hand...
1/ The OP asks a question about wiring a fan...
Sparkytim gives a reasonable reply...
2/ Others make comment that additional fuses are not needed ever on lighting circuits....
3/ Implications are made that the bit of paper inside the fan with the manufactures instructions should be ignored in favour of an internet forum, third parties conversation, with an unknown person at a fan manufacture suggesting they are never needed and ignore all manufactures instructions...
Such as:-
Whereas extract from Manrose installation instructions say:-
View attachment 3706
4/ So common sense instruction to the OP a young Spark.. (looking back at his posts was just doing 2nd yr 2330 in 2008...
Is it the hear-say internet guidance from the mystery phone call?
Or
the manufactures instructions that came with the fan??
I know what I consider common sence...
5/ Irrespective of how many fused fans you may or may not have seen in your years....
Other electricians may have seen more....
Also...
6/ NOT ALL LIGHTING CIRCUITS ARE 5 or 6 Amp..
many nowadays are 10amp!
especially when looking to assist reduction of unwanted tripping when a lamp blows...
Unfused fan on a 10A light circuit when manufactures instruction sate MUST be connected to a 3amp fuse....
Don't worry we can always say a bloke on the internet told me I didn't need it!
no doubt you and shed will call me some other names again now for trying to help the Op have a balanced view to
the Pro-Manufactures Instructions side of the debate.?
:|
So in conclusion again:-
we can all pick and chose what parts we want to read, and which parts we want to ignore,
you obviously only read the bits that back up your opinion, thats your choice,
as for doing your FCUs for a fiver, you can do mine too, in fact I'll give you a tenner for them.
the other point to make to the younger members of the forum is this
none of these things are law.
flyingsparky
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Just when it seems the thread is coming to an end, allow me to throw this one in:
At our last NICEIC inspection we were told that if the room where the fan is installed has a window (opening or not) there is no requirement to install a separate fan isolator. This apparently is because if you isolate the circuit at the D/B you can still see to work. We called up the tech helpline and they backed the guy up. Makes sense, but really? Again, I bet some instructions say to install a fan isolator, so do you or not?
At our last NICEIC inspection we were told that if the room where the fan is installed has a window (opening or not) there is no requirement to install a separate fan isolator. This apparently is because if you isolate the circuit at the D/B you can still see to work. We called up the tech helpline and they backed the guy up. Makes sense, but really? Again, I bet some instructions say to install a fan isolator, so do you or not?
This is NOT a dig at you flying sparky.... it's a dig at the info given by NICEIC....
Why would having a window make any difference to isolation of a fan, what if it was winter 4pm, spark turns up its dark..... You could apply the window letting light in for other situations, for instance, don't bother with a cooker switch, switches above work surface for white appliances etc etc.... But we do it because often maintenance is required on these appliances, cleaning of filters from fans etc so therefore an isolation point means it can be done safely without isolating a full circuit....
it's an irrelevant point about the window and wrong IMHO ....
I always fit a 3 pole fan isolator for fans.....
---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:09 ----------
To add, are you sure they didn't say if there is an opening window it can be switched seperate from the light switch and doesn't have to be run on timer fan... As this is permitted.....
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Apologies Shed Guinness
Really not clear why on earth the concept of legal obligations has been raised.
But no you are correct legally you don
thats a much better approach than simply blindly quoting regs,
ask/discuss with the customer what their requirements actually are, and what their options are.
ask/discuss with the customer what their requirements actually are, and what their options are.
Special Location has made some good points and providing your lighting circuit is 6A and not 10A, and you want to keep your quote keen, then source a fan which states a FCU is not required, like from Greenwood Airvac.
Factual :-
Or Vent-Axia, depending on what model, this is the Silhouette.
Factual :-
Or Vent-Axia, depending on what model, this is the Silhouette.
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davetheglitz
Electrician
I think this Regulation 537.2 Isolation & 537.3 Switching off for mechanical maintenance covers the requirements in one way or another.
Extract from ESC,
This topic applies to extractor fans that are generally used in bathrooms, toilets and kitchens within a dwelling. The term
Extract from ESC,
This topic applies to extractor fans that are generally used in bathrooms, toilets and kitchens within a dwelling. The term
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