Faulty Common On Three Way Switching

[Steve3948]

 

[Steve3948]

I don't use Yellow or Harmonised Black as common, prefer Red of Brown.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

There has been a 2 way system from box1 to box 2 left like that by the electrician, he said he needed a special box to finish the run -that was 4 years ago.......

.....This is all modern wiring with proper earth trips etc I wonder If I could pinch a common connection to the near by separate 3 way.

From your comments above I would think on the balance of probabilities that there are no duff cables or wires there....

More likely something miss connected or lose in another junction box elsewhere...

I would be inclined to fully test all of the conductors with an appropriate continuity tester rather than a neon screwdriver....

Verify exactly what is what before you start cross connecting other wires.

I am guessing from your opening post & the question about using the CPC that you are a keen DIY'er not someone with any electrical qualifiations...

other question..

why didn't you ring the original electrician back after a few weeks..

rather than leaving it 4 years???

Or has he walked away...

because genuinely he has messed up the wiring and he has already tested and proved you don't have enough conductors to get your three-way working correctly????

I cannot see why the original spark did not just pop back with an intermediate switch..

if that was all that was needed??

:C

 

[thinker]

Have you tried swapping the connections on the intermediate switch ?

Common mistake.

please forgive me but how will this make the faulty common whole? I tested each wire to find out where it was in each box before I connected it, and i duplicated the other working 3 way so I am sure they are ok but to be sure I will run an external wire to replicate the common and see what happens tomorrow.

 

[thinker]

its very rare that a one core from a twin or 3 core goes missing. Saying that it does happen.

I imagine you either have it connected up wrong or a core missing as you say.

What you really need is an electrician. If you have a core missing/damamged, why? Why has it not tripped the breaker? Could you have a live screw poking out of the wall? Could your wall potentially come live if its damp? Yes it happens!

presumably the trip hasn't gone because it is a break in the copper but not in the sheathing , If i replace the faulty wire externally this will tell me for sure if I am barking up the right tree. I will do this in day light. thanks.

 

[binky]

unusual (ish) to see neutral at the switch. buy a cheap £10 multitester and check continuity of cables or use classic battery and torch lamp rig-up. Probably best achieved by deading circuit, removing switches and connect blocking connections. Use earth or yellow as loop for testing as these are easily identified.

Question does the 2 way switching not work at all or partly work - if partly, it suggest mixed up connections

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

please forgive me but how will this make the faulty common whole? I tested each wire to find out where it was in each box before I connected it, and i duplicated the other working 3 way so I am sure they are ok but to be sure I will run an external wire to replicate the common and see what happens tomorrow.

I read that but you also said the two way did work previously

 

[thinker]

Thanks to all of you for your input I appreciate it Yes I am a keen DIY'er I had to be as my dear builder hubby passed away at the beginning of this job that was 12 years ago and I am still DIY'ing I have almost completed this dwelling now- I did most of the first fix myself to save money all checked by the sparks a family friend who my hubby and I helped when times where bad for him. But he lived a long way away and every thing was up and running so it didn't seem fair to call him back plus he had been paid and probably just forgot, it was no big deal.

 

[thinker]

I read that but you also said the two way did work previously

Yes but that had a two way switch at the intermediate position and the 3rd box was not linked it was a safe temporary solution that lasted a long time. one I could still go back to I suppose. Thanks any way for all your help.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I see. So you made each core live & tested to find that the common has a bad connection ?

 

[thinker]

unusual (ish) to see neutral at the switch. buy a cheap £10 multitester and check continuity of cables or use classic battery and torch lamp rig-up. Probably best achieved by deading circuit, removing switches and connect blocking connections. Use earth or yellow as loop for testing as these are easily identified.

Question does the 2 way switching not work at all or partly work - if partly, it suggest mixed up connections

The 2 way was always meant to be temporary due to the lack of an intermediate box another 2way switch was used and 2 way was employed. However the intermediate is now in place and box 3 (end of run) is connected but due to a duff common from intermediate to 3 nothing at all works. thanks for your interest.

 

[thinker]

I see. So you made each core live & tested to find that the common has a bad connection ?

Has no connection -yes.

 

[Sharpend]

Could you not just call the sparks as a friend and ask him which way to connect, he should surely know if he has worked on it?

 

[thinker]

Could you not just call the sparks as a friend and ask him which way to connect, he should surely know if he has worked on it?

I am sure He would worry about it, but I bet you would find it hard to remember details of a job you worked on 5years ago. I have lived with this for so long now it somehow seems inappropriate to call him up now- let me first verify my deduction and then I will see what can be done. Thank you for your interest.

 

[thinker]

I don't use Yellow or Harmonised Black as common, prefer Red of Brown.

Just wanted to thank you for this practical help sir- yes the coloured diagram is what I have but red is used for common and yellow for live.

 

[steptoe]

firstly let me just point out that I am a great advocate of using NEON screwdrivers,

but,

you cannot use (or rely on) a neon screwdriver for testing in the manner you are using it, nor do I assume you would have adequate experience to interpet the readings you are getting from your neon accurately enough,

just because it glows does NOT mean you are getting 230volts on that cable, there is a trick to knowing but I am afraid to explain to an untrained person would be extremely neglible of me.

2nd, I have often had calls from jobs in excess of 10years+ that I can usually solve over the 'phone, that is because I wire most simple things like lighting circuits to a method and almost all jobs have the same system.

I very much on the basis that this is a mixed up connection somewhere and the more you mess the more you will get confused, as thus far it seems that not only have you added a [very] simple to do switch into the system, you have now completely messed it up,

sorry to state the obvious, but it seems like maybe you have got a little overconfident in your ability, and you may now have to admit defeat and get a proper electrician in to sort out the mess.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Thanks to all of you for your input I appreciate it Yes I am a keen DIY'er I had to be as my dear builder hubby passed away at the beginning of this job that was 12 years ago and I am still DIY'ing I have almost completed this dwelling now- I did most of the first fix myself to save money all checked by the sparks a family friend who my hubby and I helped when times where bad for him. But he lived a long way away and every thing was up and running so it didn't seem fair to call him back plus he had been paid and probably just forgot, it was no big deal.

Sorry to hear about your hubby, :mellow: but it does sound as though this Family friend spark could also have been a friend of john wayne..

Yee Haaa!!!

If he has been paid..

then one assumes his work was complete..?

If complete it should have been either Energised and fully working ..

or

Unenergised but left ready for final fix and energising...

Either way...

The cables should have been dead tested to make sure R1+R2 readings are within permitted values re Zs calc's, Ze+(R1+R2)..

Unless of course this work was paid.. {in cash} ..

but..

Not declared..

Not Notified to LABC

No electrical certificates issued

and

NO building regs compliance certificates

:shakehead

Lets just hope that there is earth continuity along the circuits as on the face of it ..

it sounds like no dead testing has been done!!

Is this a property you intend to stay living in?.. or are you looking to sell it on?

I just cannot believe any self respecting spark didn't just pop down the wholesalers

and pick up an intermediate switch and call back and fit it within a week....

Unless there is something else fishy you are not divulging?????

:C

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Thanks to all of you for your input I appreciate it Yes I am a keen DIY'er I had to be as my dear builder hubby passed away at the beginning of this job that was 12 years ago and I am still DIY'ing I have almost completed this dwelling now- I did most of the first fix myself to save money all checked by the sparks a family friend who my hubby and I helped when times where bad for him. But he lived a long way away and every thing was up and running so it didn't seem fair to call him back plus he had been paid and probably just forgot, it was no big deal.

I missed this post. Do you remember the cable route and maybe a awkward place it may have been damaged. Did you fit conduit in the wall that you may be able to rewire ?

 

[thinker]

Good morning, I have just by-passed the suspect wire with a temporary lash up and all lights are working as they should . All switches work.

Steptoe your remarks are misjudged and condescending- misogynist is a word that springs to mind , If you have nothing polite to say then please refrain from malicious comments .

Trailer boy my electrician friend did every thing to the book. He is a very fine electrician with his own successful business, this is my home and not up for sale. and has been signed off by BR.

I suspect that vermin have had a go at the wire where it was routed through the landing floor. They get everywhere don't they!

It is no big deal to chase in a replacement cable and rewire to the last switch- Yes I can do a bit of plastering as well. thanks for all your interest.

 

[thinker]

I missed this post. Do you remember the cable route and maybe a awkward place it may have been damaged. Did you fit conduit in the wall that you may be able to rewire ?

Galvanised sheathing was placed over all wire routes there are a few turns in the route making it a replacement wire job -Hay ho I will just put it on the list. Thank you for your interest.